To say no to DD going away over Christmas?

[ChristmasIWantToSeeHer]

I feel really bad about it as it means ExH won’t get to go away either.

Share DD 9, with ExH. CAO in place.

We live close enough that we split Christmas, 1 year I have her Christmas Eve and Christmas Morning until 12.30pm and ExH has her 12.30pm Christmas Day until 9am on 27th, then next year we switch, although we tend to do 2 years in each arrangement then switch for 2 years.

ExH has just asked if he can have DD 23rd December until 27th December as a one off. His parents are going away to their holiday home in Scotland for the first time since precovid and he’d like to join them.

DD wants to do our usual arrangement, this year its ExHs turn to have her Christmas Eve and morning, and I was really looking forward to having her for lunch with my very elderly grandparent who adores her.

If I say no then ExH has nowhere to go due to his sibling and their family joining his parents and he won’t not want to see DD at Christmas. Due to the reasons for the split he cannot join us for lunch so after lunchtime he’d be alone.

AIBU to say no?

For context ExH has DD every other weekend for 2 nights, no other times at all even though he lives 2 miles from us and could see her anytime he wanted. He won’t even have her extra in the summer holidays and if he has AL he usually goes away with friends rather than DD. It’d be the first time he’s ever taken DD away on holiday although she has been on school residentials and Brownies Camps so is used to staying away from me for 3-4 nights at a time.

"Scotland at Christmas can be magical

Well, it depends. I once went out with a bloke from Annan, the only thing magical about Annan is being able to leave 😂"

🤣 "Scotland at Christmas can be magical". Fuck me, she's a kid. I doubt she'll be like, sorry I missed great grannies last Christmas but the Kelpies were just stupendously breathtaking.

I think given his past pattern of doing the Bare Minimum it’s quite likely if you don’t give permission for her to go he’ll sack off Xmas contact so he can go with the rest of the family in the days before rather than travel on Xmas day or be alone. Wouldn’t bother me if the other option would be 5 days with him- that’s quite a jump from the current contact arrangement and your DD sounds like a homebird. She needs to be on board otherwise it could be very disresssing for all parties. But I wouldn’t bank on your DD automatically getting her “normal” Christmas even if you say No.

As someone who spent Christmasses in both England and Scotland as a child, I always felt the magic hinged rather on none of the adults present having assaulted me. Or rather, I didn’t feel that, but if any of them had assaulted me, I bet I fucking would have.

I would let him see her on xmas eve and Christmas morning and then he can go and spend Xmas in Scotland with his folks. If he took extra interest in your child throughout the year then I would compromise but he doesn't. Why should you lose out on 5 days with your child just to suit him when he does not do anything extra or to see her. He is unreasonable and if you let him take her for 5 days then it will be a regular thing. Stick to the agreement but don't let your daughter be caught in the middle. If he wants to take her up to Scotland in the summer months when she is off school to visit then that would suit everyone better and at least she can get to see some of Scotland then as weather would be better. Tell him this and don't be bullied into anything just to suit him.

I'm not sure what the answer is - but to those saying he can drive up to Scotland Christmas Afternoon - that will depend entirely on where the OP lives, and what part of Scotland the Holiday Home is in. It is nearly 600 miles for instance, to drive from London to Inverness!!

Also just saw she is only 9 so it is up to you as a parent to make that decision, it is different when she is older like a teenager and also why should your plans be changed just to suit him when he does not even go to see any of her school things. It is all show for him with his folks, let him book a flight for himself or drive up after he drops your daughter off, anyway that is not your issue as he is an adult and has to stick to the plan that is in place. Do not feel guilty and do not let him bully you. She is only 9 so stick to the agreement and do not even get into it with him just tell him he can see her xmas eve and christmas morning as agreed by the court, no explanation needed. Tell him he can take her for a few days in summer school holidays and see what he says.

Silvers but that is not the op's problem, that is his issue. He does not take the child in summer for any extra time or even go to school plays etc. She does not have to worry about him as it is her ex so it is not about him.

Sorry op I would let her go as this one off, no kid wouldn’t want a great adventure like this going away at Christmas (really exciting) just let her know that it’s fine if she wants to go with lots of reassurance it’ll be good/fun etc.

Agree with others. Ask DD in a neutral way. If she wants to stay then suggest to ex he goes with PIL fir Christmas and sees DD before or after for their own Xmas.

"but to those saying he can drive up to Scotland Christmas Afternoon - that will depend entirely on where the OP lives, and what part of Scotland the Holiday Home is in. It is nearly 600 miles for instance, to drive from London to Inverness!!"

Fab. He'll be there in time for a nightcap then won't he?

Sorry but I think loads of kids would hate to do something different like this at Xmas, a lot of kids thrive off routine and at a time like Xmas they like to stick with what usually happens. She’s 9, realistically I’m sure she’d be a bit upset to be away from her mum over the whole of Christmas.

OP I’d stand firm on sticking to the plan. He doesn’t put himself out for her all year, why should you do him this favour and miss out on Xmas with your child? He can travel up to Scotland after he drops her off or on Boxing Day, it’s not your problem.

I have to say when I was a child I was very appreciative that my divorced parents rotated Christmases and we didn’t have to endure half days. I feel a bit bad for kids who have to do the two-Christmas dance because neither parent wants to lose out.

God this. I don't do it with mine, we alternate Christmases, a split day is bullshit. My SC do it and it fucks the entire day for everyone but it's all about their mum and what she wants.

Anyway, back to OP, I think I'd let her go.

I wouldn’t put too much on DD for making a decision. You know your daughter yourself - some kids are always up for an adventure and others prefer familiar routine, nothing wrong with both options. I would also think very hard about letting her go for so long if she’s even missing you on overnights. I would also think very hard about family dynamics. Yes, her dad behaved good so far but what if she would be more difficult on a longer trip ? How would he react? How about others involved? What they are going to do on this holiday? Would she like it? The problem with magical Christmas in Scotland is that you can’t easily fetch your kid back from there.

I wonder if your Ex always prefers what is convenient for him. He wants to go to Scotland so he doesn’t mind to take DD as well, he prefers to spend AL with mates so doesn’t bother about her. However saying this she might love to see her paternal grandparent and this might turn out to be the trip of the decade for her.

I think it's up to your daughter but tbh I think it's not really sustainable to do the split like this long term as it means you're tied to each other every Xmas for years to come!
I don't know your ex so it's hard to say but if he really wants to join his family he might say he's not able to have his daughter.
Whether or not he has someone to spend the day with isn't really the issue, the point is is it realistic to continue with your arrangement. Why not alternate years rather than days?

@JudgeRudy Because selfishly I do the parent 12 days out 14, spend all my Annual Leave on childcare or sports day or concerts never getting a day to myself really, I can't even easily go away with my friends or extended family without taking DD with me. I even plan our annual holiday around contact so she never ever misses out on seeing her dad due to us being away. I work a second job on the weekends she's with him, just so I can afford everything she'd ever want.

Why shouldn't I get at least part of one of her two favourite days of the year?

YANBU. I never understand why some people think a dad should be able to opt out of all of the graft and inconvenient parts of parenting when it suits them, but then he ‘deserves’ to get equal treatment when it comes to things like birthdays and Christmas.

you sound like a wonderful, dedicated mum OP.

I'm confused by your retort. I'm suggesting you get the same amount of 'prime days' with your daughter, just not splitting it. If she stayed with her dad this Xmas you could have time to yourself. Maybe if you're not ready for him to have her this year he could maybe take her away at a different time to allow you some space to do your own thing.

Are you sure he wouldn't just see her earlier/later if you said no, instead of not going himself ?

Just going by the fact he doesn't see her any more than EOW/doesn't take her on holiday etc despite having the option?

I always had my girls Xmas eve and Xmas day until Afternoon They would then go to their dads and come back on 27th . They stil do that now as adults 😂

@JudgeRudy But the split was decided in court, and both DD and I like it, and ExH usually does to, it's always worked. We've been apart 6 years and apart from the first year we've always done it this way. Why would we change what works? He lives less than 2 miles from me, I just checked on google maps, his parents usual home is 10 miles from us.

I wouldn't make her go, she doesn't like staying over at her dad's & she has said she wants to be with you. Could her dad have her 23 - 24, drop her off in the morning & then travel to Scotland?

Just saw that you split due to his abusive behaviour and that he doesn't bother to go to school events. Tempted to say that what he wants doesn't particularly matter. If your daughter wants to go, fine. But otherwise, absolutely not.

But the split was decided in court, and both DD and I like it, and ExH usually does to, it's always worked. We've been apart 6 years and apart from the first year we've always done it this way. Why would we change what works? He lives less than 2 miles from me, I just checked on google maps, his parents usual home is 10 miles from us.

I'd say if you're all happy with the arrangement then stick with it. If your daughter doesn't want to go away for Xmas with her dad, or you don't want her to, then that's fine, just let him know so his family can finalise plans. His Xmas arrangements arent your concern. It's up to him if he wants to miss out on this holiday to spend 1 day alone with his daughter. Maybe he'll let you have her for Xmas and he'll have her on NYE so you can go out.

I think as others have said you should be led by your daughter. It sounds like 5 days away over Christmas when she struggles with overnights might be too much for her to me and I suspect that by say day 3 she might be pretty miserable. Although kids love Christmas it can be a bit of a difficult time too. I think I’d say it’s too soon and she’s a bit too young, so this will absolutely happen in the future but not this year, unless you can work out a way for it to be a bit shorter.

I think you need to be honest with her and yourself though, she needs to understand that the other half-day arrangement simply won’t be possible and you need to make sure that you’re prioritising what’s best for her, even though you might miss her.

I think YABU. Why don't you have alternate xmas's so each one of you can go away or do what you want each year instead of both being tied down to one place so you can share Xmas. It seems very unfair being stuck in this arrangement. Then next Xmas its all yours.