Thinking of moving back to the UK for secondary schools. Not sure if its a good idea

[expatinmys]

We have lived quite comfortably in Middle East country for the past 8 years. The past 2 years have seen DH’s job deteriorating and career growth prospects decline. He had to take a wage cut during Covid but its still more than what he would make in the UK. The package also includes medical insurance, school fees partially paid for (90%) and some other benefits. Plus the weather is hot (unbearably for 2/3 months but the rest of the year is quite pleasant). Both our DS and DD are doing well in the school here and are active on sports, music lessons and taking up some language lessons as well. DS is 9 and as a family, we feel we have reached a crossroads where we have to make some critical decisions, mainly in regards to DS education route. Herein lies the complication.

DS will soon go to secondary school in September 2025. We were thinking of returning to the UK , and getting DS to take the 11 plus exam. We are in Kent and in within the catchment area for a good Grammar school and also a super selective in Orpington but they have 2 stage exams so it might be a long shot. Both DH and I are not grammar school products. DH has decided that if DS does not get into a super selective grammar school, we will consider a private school for him. Both DH and I strongly believe that a solid education is the best thing we could give both DS and DD. DD will then follow suit with the 11 plus.

Hence , the consideration of the move to the UK has come about. We are keen to make the move to the UK. However the recent news over the past year in the UK has been really negative. Plus DH will have to take a further pay cut in the UK and I will not be able to work for the first year or so to ensure the family settles in. We don’t have any immediate family in the UK.

We have started tutoring DS for 11 plus and he seems to be doing okay although needs some work in certain areas. Schools where we are at the moment are not bad, they follow the UK curriculum and have secondary years as well. Class sizes are around 24.

If continuing secondary here in the ME , my worry is that DC will not get the exposure of a grammar school in the UK which I think will set them up for the future. I worry that if the DC complete their education here until end of secondary they will lack “something”, I am not sure how to put it to be honest. I have seen other children, who complete their full primary and secondary years in the ME who cannot fit in anywhere else apart from ME and struggle in the young adult years in terms of jobs and socially. I also learnt this talking to other parents.

Has anyone gone through this? Has anyone moved back to the UK for the grammar schools and what would be your experience? Is it worth it, with the current situation in the UK (inflation, public services especially the state of the NHS, cuts to school spending, the whole gender issue) to move just to get DC into good grammar schools? We know moving to UK will be challenging and in most parts , we would regret it (commute, weather, price of things, ease of travelling for holidays etc).

However , what we have here in the ME is not permanent , it could end any time and our main concern in the education for the DC. Any thoughts welcome.

It feels the right thing to do for the children but the move feels a bit daunting. We have checked for primary school places and there are places in the schools around the area where we have our home, we even had an online interview with one of the primary headteachers which went very well. The next thing is to get the tenants to move out from our current home but once we do that , I feel like there is no turning back.

If you have to move back to Uk at some point, then timing that around the dc's education is a wise one.
The grammar schools in UK are like having a private school education but for free. It's a tough test the 11plus so tutoring is essential.
I think it helps enormously to actually live in a country to pick up all the small quirks and nuances that make someone feel they belong and fit in

I don't know about the pros and cons of relocating in your situation but iirc from other threads I think @PettsWoodParadise is knowledgable about schools in your area.

https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/index.php

^^If you don't know about this site it may be helpful in terms of 11+ and school information.

For September 2025 entry you will need to register for the Kent Test in June 2024 and May/ June for Bexley if those are the ones you are looking at. The tests themselves are likely to be first/ second week of September 2024. I don't have any knowledge of the superselectives.

It would be better to plan your return than have to do it hastily once dc are in secondary. State 11+ is taken ahead of private school entrance tests and interviews (November to January usually) but you may need to register for them in advance of knowing 11+ outcome.

I’d start making plans now.
yes the UK is a bit of a disaster zone right now but I’m not sure it can get much worse and we should have a new government next year. You have a house in the UK already which would be the one biggest thing to worry about.

The main reason I’d move back though is the concern you suggest that children growing up as ME expats only really know how to live as ME expats. That would be a red line for me.

We did a similar move (KSA to England) when our oldest was Y6 - in time to apply for secondary as an on time applicant.
There are no grammar schools round here.
We found our good (not outstanding) primary that had the spaces we needed (ie least popular in town) was better than our international school (which was one of the best in the country).
Both kids are now at a state secondary. Both are doing really well.

The problem with staying in the ME without sending the kids to boarding school is the chance the job gets terminated when the kids are mid GCSE or Alevel course. That is the worst outcome.

ME living is very much a bubble of privilege. The boys were very much lacking in streetwise-ness but had massive global awareness when we moved back. I can see that moving later would have exaggerated some of the negatives.

Depending where you are in the ME you may be surprised at the lack of academics provided. Both kids were clearly top of year in KSA. In the UK they are decent, but nothing special. I dont think DS1 would have got into a grammar. DS2 may have.

Thanks @euff for the mention.

As the name suggests I am in the local area. I can't compare ME private education to local grammars but I can tell you about the Boys Grammar in Orpington. I have heard of boys flying in for the grammar tests. As it has NO catchment, other than a requirement to have an address in the UK for submission of the Common Application Form by end of October prior to the year of application it does draw a lot of attention. DD has just completed 7 years at the girls grammar school nearby (class size 27 in Y7, but classes much smaller for GCSE and A levels) but that does have a catchment of 9 miles.

Do make the most of the link the the elevenplus forum, there is a Bromley and Bexley section plus a Kent section. If you were resident in Orpington or nearby at the point of application then you could consider a wider range of grammar schools if those tests were also sat. Often some of the Bexley grammar schools come out a fair distance and some of the Kent schools have either places based on score for out of county or for various reasons like size and local populations come out a fair distance into SE London and only require a pass in the Kent test. You usually need to register for the test in the late spring to early summer prior to the test in September, ready for entry the following September. For St Olaves you don't really 'know' how successful you are other than the first of the two tests is prior to the submission of the CAF, if your DS gets through the second round you are in with a chance, but still not guaranteed and you don't get 'results' as such. You only find out on 1st March.

There are good State Comprehenstive Schools in the area too. It isn't all a cesspit like the media makes out, the Bullers Wood school for Girls and the Bullers Wood school for Boys are fairly popular for example but you'd need to live nearby as catchments are small.

For private provision for Boys you have a huge amount of variety. I have a DD but she was in a private school for primary so had friends who had brothers in private secondaries. Popular ones for boys (or co-ed) were Dulwich, Alleyn's, Eltham, Trinity, Bickley Park (upto age 13 I think, sometimes gave some thinking time for seniors), Sevenoaks. For Girls (or Co-ed) you had the GDST schools at Bromley High or Blackheath, JAGS, Trinity, Alleyn's, Eltham, Wathamstow Hall School (Sevenoaks), Old Palace.

Another thought is if you left it much longer what are the university plans. Would you qualify for home fee status if your DCs wanted to study in the Uk if you stayed in the ME?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

From a purely financial point of view if your children will be going to university in the UK they need to be living in the UK for 3 years before going. Otherwise they will be classed as international students (regardless of their birth certificate or yours). International fees are at least double if not triple and there are less places available.

I would not recommend moving at the beginning of y11, therefore you need to be moving by y10 (if the gcse course I 2 years not 3) at the latest.

Would have loved to gone back overseas but the kids are the wrong age.

Anyone reading this and in Europe the rules are changing to the above from entry in 2028, there's a grace period after Brexit.

With the amount of teaching posts empty and the number of teachers quitting I'm pretty sure I'd not want to do it.

We were very happy with the boys' selective school in Orpington and the girls' school is well thought of, too. But please remember that these are small schools (124 boys a year and 168 girls) and that competition for a place is serious, and from a wide radius. There are other good schools locally.

Thanks @PettsWoodParadise for the detailed info. We wouldn't qualify for home school fees for university so making a move back soon is essential.

Thanks @DessertOrDesert. How did you find the move? What you had said about being terminated midGCSE is our main worry.

Thanks @bellocchild. I am aware that the competition for the super selective in Orpington is extremely fierce.

We are moving from Orpington to the ME for secondary - DH is a native though so we are often back and forth, otherwise I would also be concerned about 'exposure' - the gulf is a very different world.

UK is an absolute disaster at the moment and you will feel the pinch massively. We are financially fortunate and it is still very much taking a toll - hence why we're leaving again.

In your shoes I would move back to UK at the beginning of Year 9 once you have secured them a place at a good school.

Gives you more time to save for a private school and means you're not moving in the hope that DC will pass an exam - that's quite a lot of pressure for you all. And I'm pretty sure you can take late transfer exam for grammars too, so still an option.

If you move before that, 2025 is not a lot of time to really get financially set up for the hit you will take moving back here. Do you think DH work could last another 4 years?

If you haven't lived here for 8 years, I think you will be a bit shocked and saddened about the quality of life.

But I totally understand your reasoning re the kind of education they get, exposure and access to university.

Really tough decision.

DD said one of her classmates has a parent living and working in the ME. A fair bit of travelling happens in holidays so they can all spend time together. I guess it must be financially worth it but still must be hard though.

We are in a similar position in terms of timing for eldest secondary (not ME) and have decided to come back to the Uk, because seeing the whole of secondary out wasn’t an option. We spoke to the school about 11+ and they said that the eldest had good enough marks to be in with a chance, but even then that it is a LOT of work and potentially stress depending on the child’s nature.

We’re moving back to a different part of the country rather than London where we were, where excellent state schools are easy to get into in the new place (a bit of black hole where we were, I know that London does have same amazing schools though!), and preparing the children to lower their expectations! I still feel on balance it’s the right move but it’s not an easy decision .

We moved from Qatar back to the Kent for exactly that reason (5 days before the cut off for the eldest to sit his Kent test!) and all three boys got into a grammar with no issues, but as someone upthread said, learnt some very real lessons about life as they went from being high flyers in their International prep to slightly above average joes.

It was the best time to do it - did not want the power removed from our hands if husband lost job mid GCSEs etc, plus I do feel teenagers out there miss out a bit on independence. They couldn’t just hop on train to London, or a bus to the movies. Having a driver wasn’t exactly preparing them for normal life! And as someone else also said it was slightly weird having to teach them to be a bit streetwise as older children-even crossing a road was a lesson as they’d never really done it except on holiday!

All in all it worked out really well and I certainly think it was the best thing to do, when I look back at how it panned out for some of the friends they left behind whose parents lost jobs with minimal notice…

The grammar schools in UK are like having a private school education but for free.
Disagree with this. DS's grammar was good because of less classroom disruption and a greater concentration of peers at his level in STEM subjects. However, there was no money available and many subjects taught by teachers of other subjects. Is this how it is in private schools too?

Disagree with this. DS's grammar was good because of less classroom disruption and a greater concentration of peers at his level in STEM subjects. However, there was no money available and many subjects taught by teachers of other subjects. Is this how it is in private schools too?

I agree with this. I went to a super selective, no catchment grammar and it got amazing results but then it selected the kids in the first place. Yes, the behaviour was probably better but I don’t think the teaching was that great and the facilities were no different. That’s just one example, of course.

I would just add too (and am totally aware that this sounds awful and a little tone deaf, but it is something for OP to factor) is that I would imagine that years in the ME means you can insulate yourself to a large extent from a lot of the crap that is going on at the moment. We came back financially secure and could buy property/vehicles, etc outright in a nice area so some of the concerns on here about the mess the UK is in, might not really be relevant to the lifestyle you will have…

Agree with @EmeraldFox DD is in grammar and her friend is in private. There's a big difference between the two. Class sizes at DD's school are 32, at her friends private school they are 15-20. Academically students can do very well at the grammar but private school isn't just about that. There's more to it. The private actually seems to be less pressured and the grammar has a lot of students with anxiety.

That's essentially how I'd describe my 2000s private day school experience.

The fees were relatively low, the paint was peeling, there was 30 to a class, the kids were all above average intelligence, the parents supportive of the school, no real disruption and no culture of mocking kids who did well. Most kids were there because the local state options were amongst the worst in the country, and parents were scrimping to avoid those schools. About 5 years ago the local state schools had got much better and my school went bust.

(inflation, public services especially the state of the NHS, cuts to school spending, the whole gender issue)

The first 3 are entirely understandable things to be concerned about. The fourth is bizarre - what do you think is going to happen - your son catching the trans after glimpsing a drag queen?!

Most of the UK doesn't have Grammar schools ,so.I would think its a bit of a risk, deciding to move back on the assumption your child will.get into.one ,even if its an areas with a Grammar school.system

Look into university fees - it’s a long way off. But your children may have to pay international fees if you are outside the Uk. And they are expensive!

We didn’t move back . We stayed. I must admit it was quite a rollercoaster in our case which saw my DS moving school from the Middle East to SE Asia in year 9 before we scrapped through to end of year 11 for him then sixth form in the UK . My DD ended up doing secondary in 4 different schools across 3 different countries! Her last sixth form years were a lovely private local school and it is my biggest regret they both didn’t go there for all their secondary years it was perfect.
Incredibly my children did really well academically and are very well rounded and comfortable with change but if I had my time again I would just come back to the UK the whole experience was very stressful and the insecurity particularly with jobs in the Middle East around GCSE years is immense

Oh and regarding Uni fees both my children got full fees despite only being back 2 years but it is a uni by uni decision. And I know some unis have declined Uk status for some expat children with 3 or less years