Thinking of moving back to the UK for secondary schools. Not sure if its a good idea

[expatinmys]

We have lived quite comfortably in Middle East country for the past 8 years. The past 2 years have seen DH’s job deteriorating and career growth prospects decline. He had to take a wage cut during Covid but its still more than what he would make in the UK. The package also includes medical insurance, school fees partially paid for (90%) and some other benefits. Plus the weather is hot (unbearably for 2/3 months but the rest of the year is quite pleasant). Both our DS and DD are doing well in the school here and are active on sports, music lessons and taking up some language lessons as well. DS is 9 and as a family, we feel we have reached a crossroads where we have to make some critical decisions, mainly in regards to DS education route. Herein lies the complication.

DS will soon go to secondary school in September 2025. We were thinking of returning to the UK , and getting DS to take the 11 plus exam. We are in Kent and in within the catchment area for a good Grammar school and also a super selective in Orpington but they have 2 stage exams so it might be a long shot. Both DH and I are not grammar school products. DH has decided that if DS does not get into a super selective grammar school, we will consider a private school for him. Both DH and I strongly believe that a solid education is the best thing we could give both DS and DD. DD will then follow suit with the 11 plus.

Hence , the consideration of the move to the UK has come about. We are keen to make the move to the UK. However the recent news over the past year in the UK has been really negative. Plus DH will have to take a further pay cut in the UK and I will not be able to work for the first year or so to ensure the family settles in. We don’t have any immediate family in the UK.

We have started tutoring DS for 11 plus and he seems to be doing okay although needs some work in certain areas. Schools where we are at the moment are not bad, they follow the UK curriculum and have secondary years as well. Class sizes are around 24.

If continuing secondary here in the ME , my worry is that DC will not get the exposure of a grammar school in the UK which I think will set them up for the future. I worry that if the DC complete their education here until end of secondary they will lack “something”, I am not sure how to put it to be honest. I have seen other children, who complete their full primary and secondary years in the ME who cannot fit in anywhere else apart from ME and struggle in the young adult years in terms of jobs and socially. I also learnt this talking to other parents.

Has anyone gone through this? Has anyone moved back to the UK for the grammar schools and what would be your experience? Is it worth it, with the current situation in the UK (inflation, public services especially the state of the NHS, cuts to school spending, the whole gender issue) to move just to get DC into good grammar schools? We know moving to UK will be challenging and in most parts , we would regret it (commute, weather, price of things, ease of travelling for holidays etc).

However , what we have here in the ME is not permanent , it could end any time and our main concern in the education for the DC. Any thoughts welcome.

It feels the right thing to do for the children but the move feels a bit daunting. We have checked for primary school places and there are places in the schools around the area where we have our home, we even had an online interview with one of the primary headteachers which went very well. The next thing is to get the tenants to move out from our current home but once we do that , I feel like there is no turning back.

I think if the job there is not 100% secure and there’s a chance of a forced move before the Dc finish their education, and you’re worried about qualifying for help with uni fees then there’s your answer. And a planned move for the start of secondary is the pragmatic thing to do.

Can you afford private from 13-18? That’s a better route back in my view. You get a bit of time to plan and you will have a greater choice of school. You will be resident for uni so avoid international fees. Depends what money you have. Don’t under estimate the rental property law changed either. Getting tenants out is a new minefield.

The first 3 are entirely understandable things to be concerned about. The fourth is bizarre - what do you think is going to happen - your son catching the trans after glimpsing a drag queen?!

I assume they are referring to the social contagion issue, though more of a risk for girls.

We moved back to UK for secondary school from private school in ME.
We are in Scotland so no grammar school but my daughter attends an excellent comprehensive and is thriving.

Part of the reason for moving back is that ME life is a bubble and not good preparation for university or work. Here my DD has more gradual independence and responsibility here. Standard of teaching is also more consistent than the private school in ME.

I'm glad to see that you are looking at grammars and private because the UK comprehensive school system has been ground down to breaking point in recent years. It is chronically underfunded. experienced teachers are leaving in droves, to be replaced by NQTs.

Sounds like you are starting at the right time to do grammar prep. I don't know if the same is true of grammars throughout UK but I do know our local grammars ask a fair amount of financial input from parents. Bear that in mind. (Though it would be a fraction of the cost of private.)

I think in your position I'd draw up some strategies for both eventualities - staying and leaving. If you stay, why not really think hard about what exactly is missing from the education of children in ME. Can you augment it with regular visits back to UK and Europe? By getting your DC to teach at sports and summer camps in USA or UK once they reach 18 so they are mixing as early as possible with teens with the social skills or habits that you think they might have missed. Culturally, can you make sure they read widely, see films, listen to music that would keep them connected with peers over here. Encourage online friendships in interest groups etc.

If you bring your children up in the middle east then that will be their home in the way the UK will never be. If you were a normal part of the community in your country of choice then that would be less of an issue but you aren't, you're leading an expat lifestyle. So your children will be culturally rootless - caught between cultures. That's not always an easy thing to live with.

I don't know if the same is true of grammars throughout UK but I do know our local grammars ask a fair amount of financial input from parents. Bear that in mind. (Though it would be a fraction of the cost of private.)

I think ours asked parents to sign up for regular donations at the start of year 7 but it was entirely voluntary.

I recently moved back to the UK after living abroad in South East Asia for 7 years. I have two children who were in y5 and y6. They have gone to the local state primary where they have made some lovely friendships. Now going to local state secondary. I didn't get it together early enough to prepare them for 11+.

The best thing about moving back to the UK after an ex pat childhood is the normal things:

Freedom to pop to the shops, park, woods or friends houses by themselves.

Being in their own culture.

Being close to relatives who love them and look after them.

Being surrounded by people from all walks of life.

Feeling like they have a hometown.

The above points were not possible as expats. Although we had a lovely lifestyle abroad, and had fantastic holiday destinations on the doorstep, I don't regret moving back. (As a full time working and single parent, I must admit that I really do miss my live-in maid though 😂)

Getting the timing right is tricky. Friend whose dc attended Surrey primary has been in Singapore for 3 years now, and deciding when to return. Probably for A'levels, because my ds2 is about to start Year 10, ie GCSE's, so she's too late for GCSE's.

Two thoughts, firstly I think better to be back in the UK for secondary education at the start than half way through. Secondly, do you want teenagers to be living in a country where women are treated even worse than in the UK, and depending upon the one you are in, where any same sex relationships are illegal?

I can see the point in moving when it is inevitable you will have to move back but please be careful ow you 'seell' this to your children.

At first reading it looks like you are giving up private school, private health care, a big chunk of salary for you DS to take a test, that could be a lot of pressure.

Also not sure why husband can't work for a year to settle in?!?! Ridiculous, we've moved all of the world and it does not take a year to settle in

The grammar schools in UK are like having a private school education but for free

😂 LOL

This is SO not true. I work in one and have good friends who work in others. Grammar schools are strapped for cash, cutting subjects and extra curriculars, struggling to recruit qualified teachers and facing crumbling buildings just like every other state school in Britain. Teachers are burnt out, disillusioned and fed up.

I don't see how the 'UK situation' is relevant if you have to move back eventually. The ME is very hostile to foreigners. An expat package there buys a good life in most others countries , but unless you have made permanent plans in advance it's very hard to settle. Especially as you're reliant on your husband's job.

PP have given good advice on schools but you should have enough money for private healthcare etc. If you don't, then you should really see a financial planner.

Also not sure how 'price of things' is relevant, the ME is expensive!

DS's grammar was good because of less classroom disruption and a greater concentration of peers at his level in STEM subjects. However, there was no money available and many subjects taught by teachers of other subjects. Is this how it is in private schools too?

There is a shortage of teachers across the board and that is also affecting private schools. My DS is at a selective private school with a great reputation and even it is struggling to attract good teachers in some subjects (particularly science).

the whole gender issue

I'm guessing what this poster meant was that DC coming from schools in the ME will not have been exposed to all the gender nonsense that has taken hold in the UK. In an Arab country, there is hardly going to be an issue of boys using the girls' toilets and changing rooms!

You can't beat a good international school unfortunately they aren't all good.

We moved back when DC were year 6 and year 8 - very last minute (covid reasons) and wasn’t our plan at all. Very stressful!

However in hindsight it was the best thing for the DC. Experiencing U.K. life has been great for them, they’re out of that ‘bubble’ and even with all the issues here we feel they’re having a much better rounded education. Plus the opportunities for gaining independence are invaluable which you just can’t get in the ME.

She didn’t actually say that her husband couldn’t work for a year, she said that she couldn’t.

Yes, I'll need some time to settle in and the family too. Could be shorter than a year though....

Have you visited any of these schools? St Olaves doesn’t have a great rep for pastoral care and I’ve heard some awful stories about sixth form in particular.

My DS went to a SS in Kent lauded as Ofsted outstanding and the teaching he had was far inferior to what my DD had at her requires improvement local grammar…..so IME don’t take any notice of Ofsted.

Have you checked the entry reqs for the private schools? I heard the Sevenoaks test for eg is about the same difficulty as the 11+.

I wouldn’t move any later than year 8. There are no schools around here that will take students into year 9 as they’re full. By year 10 you will have limited options for GCSE as the popular options will be oversubscribed; that’s if the schools have room.
If going private, choose carefully. I work in a state school and our second year trainee teachers have recently spent several days in local private schools. Without exception they came back questioning what the parents were paying for as the teaching and planning was so poor at these schools. They also said behaviour management wasn’t as effective as in non- private schools they have experience of.

State schools would be a gamble post year 7 entry. Bear in mind many private schools now pretest year 9 entry candidates in year 6/7 and make conditional or deferred offers.

That's only true for the most competitive private schools. There are many decent, middle-of-the-road privates that have their own entry test plus an interview and make offers based on that. Their tests tend to be in early Jan with an interview to follow and offers immediately before Feb half-term.

@cheezncrackers I would not say only the most competitive schools, increasingly those who in the past have run a standalone 13+ entrance test process are doing so. That is not to say that they may not offer both or have a different process for overseas candidates but those dc maybe competing for a smaller number of places available than in the earlier cohort.

If you choose a 13-18 school, there is no earlier cohort. If they take at y7, then yes, y9 might be more difficult. These schools also often have feeder preps they work with. So one route is to go to a feeder prep for y7-9.