Compassionate leave, is employer BU?

[Penguinmode]

DH parent is ill in hospital and he has had to return to his home country to look after them. They are in intensive care and have been now for 3 weeks the outlook is not really know yet.

His employer has given 2 weeks paid compassionate leave and another emergency day, he also had annual leave to use so is taking this currently. They’ve now let us know that he will need to start taking unpaid leave soon. He can’t work from abroad.

WIBU here? DH thinks they should continue to pay the compassionate leave as we are going to struggle on one salary and he can’t leave his parent. But I think his employer has been pretty generous already although it’s going to leave us in a mess and I think he should think about returning home.

He may prefer to be there, but he doesn’t necessarily need to be there.

I certainly couldn’t be by my mother’s side the entire time she was dying. it’s so unpredictable, even when doctors estimate weeks, people can defy the odds and survive for dramatically longer.

I wasn't arguing that the time off should be paid, though

You originally said it would be dishonest to get signed off sick in the DH's situation - I was saying it's a perfectly acceptable reason to get signed off sick, and that as a self-employed person I would still take the time off (even if it was unpaid) as being with my parent would be more important than work.

I don't think OP's husband should get unlimited paid time off, but the law is that full-time workers can claim SSP, and it wouldn't be dishonest to claim that here.

SSP is a form of pay though

I know

I'm saying it's still not dishonest to claim sick pay that you're legally entitled to when you're declared unfit to work by a medical professional. Whether that's because you're stressed or have a broken leg is irrelevant, really.

Doctors in this country can declare you unfit for work for a whole variety of reasons - and that includes stress due to family reasons.

DH thinks they should continue to pay the compassionate leave as we are going to struggle on one salary and he can’t leave his parent

Out of interest, how long does he think they should go on paying for?
After all, presumably he'll want to be with the family member as they start to recover, or there to help with arrangements if they sadly don't, and as so many have said their policy's already pretty generous

Certainly he could look at sick leave, but hopefully he won't be surprised if they don't believe he's genuinely ill. Obviously they can't do a disciplinary if he has a note, but that doesn't mean they won't try to disadvantage him in other ways

Yes - if they're sick.

He's not sick though, is he? You wouldn't tell your clients that you're off sick if you were in this situation?

Hm he needs to think this through. His employers have already been very generous

if he goes down the sick route then it’s likely that he would be considered long term sick after two weeks, which normally invokes a whole load of hassle and will affect his sickness record and could lead to disciplinary action

he would be better off trying to get answers about his parents probable outcome and perhaps coming home

Agree with everyone else that the employer has already been generous and they can't really be seen to allow someone to take indefinite paid leave. They'll be taking into account that if the worst happened, they'd probably need to offer some time off for bereavement etc.

I think your DH has a tough decision to make, go unpaid for a set period of time or come home. Are there other close family nearby the parent? Could they take over and allow your DH to come home? It's a horrible situation though. I'm sorry you're having to make these kinds of impossible choices.

Being unable to work because you're stressed is just as legitimate as being unable to work because you have a broken leg.

If you're trying to argue that stress isn't a kind of sickness then I'm not getting into that discussion as I find it quite offensive.

But he is not unable to work. OP hadn’t said anything that sounds like it. He wants to stay over there and there is an element of family pressure if I understood correctly - this is not stress preventing him from working.

How do you know he's not unable to work?

I don’t know he isn’t , however I believe so because of what OP wrote. As explained above…
How do you know he is?

Well, considering he's got a parent abroad in ICU, I'd say it's pretty obvious that he's not really fit to work. I certainly wouldn't be fit to do my job if either of my parents were that unwell.

So...common sense and experience tells me that even if he was in the UK, he'd probably be unfit to work at the moment. Lots of people on this thread have said they'd have been totally incapable of working in the same situation.

Life stresses can make a person sick, but they also might not.

I've dealt with extreme stress very well at times, other times I've been physically unwell and unable to function.

Being sick due to stress and going through a stressful life event are not the same thing.
With one you are genuinely sick, with the other you're not.

Yes, I understand DP will be worried on a number of different fronts, but the employer has been generous.

What I have often seen when a parent or other family member is seriously ill and staff can't be in work because of distance or care, is a GP will sign them off with "stress due to family illness".....

In what way are you strict? If a medical professional says that a person is under so much stress that it is affecting their health, how do you question it? Are you medically qualified?

Agree that employer has been v generous already. If you choose to use sick absence as a means of funding his stay with his family then be aware that as pp have said it may trigger an absence process. Secondly, if you have another sick absence within a certain time frame then this absence would may reduce the amount you would be entitled to

2 weeks compassionate leave is very generous.

If a medical professional says it, we accept it. If the employee tells us it’s for a child / parent etc, we explain that isn’t the purpose of sick leave. We bend over backwards to help staff but we don’t turn a blind eye to misuse. Two weeks discretionary paid leave (occasionally a little more, depending on circumstances) on top of all the official options is generous but I think it’s the right thing to do to look after staff. We can use occupational health to support through a long absence or plan a phased return.

Very often, after someone has been through a stressful situation or nursed / lost someone close to them, they find it takes a toll on them personally and they need to take some leave to look after themselves. If they misuse sick leave, that won’t be an option.

They have been generous. Taking time off sick when you aren't sick isn't great.

Same for me with my Dad. 2 weeks is very generous.

I worked in HE and when my DM died I was allowed one day off to make funeral arrangements and one day for the funeral itself.

My GP signed me off for a month with 'bereavement stress' which was all paid under our sick pay rules. OP, could your DH see a doctor?

Definitely. He needs to speak to his GP here. I'm sure they'd do a phone consult - and either provide an electronic fit note, or get you to pick it up for him. I have a friend currently away from home, and her GP is providing sick lines on a stress basis, remotely.

Just a suggestion ... could he ask for, say 2 weeks unpaid leave, to be taken out of his next four months' pay in equal instalments?

Can he not get sick leave for stress. My employer paid me for 3 months sick leave I had off when I was caring for my mum as she died, my boss and team leader encouraged me to get a sick line and take it off as family is more important than a job.