To think all workplaces are toxic?

[Stripeymum11]

Is there an inherent indignity in working for someone else?

I’ve worked for years now in schools and am starting to think that I’m just never going to be thick-skinned enough to properly thrive in them.

Each time we adults get a new job, we have to familiarise ourselves with the written policies of a place then, regardless of any personal feelings, have to become a representative of that organisation. Fine. That’s just reality, I shove down my core values and give my time in exchange for money.

But it’s the unwritten policies that really upset me. The cultures of bitchy gossip, the male heavy leadership teams that don’t seem to do very much, the brushing (important safeguarding) issues under the carpet, the passive aggressive management, the reactive management styles.

How so people drag themselves through full time work, knowing they have to endure all of this crap for at least 30 more years without becoming just as bad or really depressed?

Is this what attracts people to leadership roles? So they’re not at the mercy of cruel management themselves?

AIBU

I’m retired now, but both my DDs work. Their workplaces are lovely, and very supportive. DD1 is autistic, and her work bent over backwards to be helpful, even providing a retreat room for meltdowns, and an autistic support network, which DD helped to run. They paid for private counselling when she had a relapse of her depression. Her colleagues are mostly geeky old men, and she fits right in - they all chat about computer games and Star Trek together!
DD2 works in a senior marketing role in financial services, has always been well mentored, and now manages a team of staff herself. She is kind and conscientious, encouraging talent, and finds it a supportive place to work. The management switched the staff to a four day week with no loss of pay over the summer months, so they can enjoy long weekends.

I feel rather envious, having slogged for 36 years in the bloody NHS, which always treated its exhausted staff like shit and has never been well managed! Retiring medical and nursing staff were all given a £30 Argos voucher by the management in my hospital - I think that’s possibly more insulting than nothing at all!

I'd hate to work in a school. There must be some happy ones.

My workplace is great. Really friendly. Everyone gets on. No bitching. We have a laugh. Work hard. I only look at policies when I've got to discipline someone usually or need go help someone.

We have a really close knit team and we all work really well together.

But it’s the unwritten policies that really upset me. The cultures of bitchy gossip, the male heavy leadership teams that don’t seem to do very much, the brushing (important safeguarding) issues under the carpet, the passive aggressive management, the reactive management styles.

Not something I've experienced in any of the schools I've worked in.
Don't get me wrong, there is SO much wrong with teaching at the moment, and I'd not recommend anyone to start as a teacher now, but I've never worked in any school with a bitchy, gossipy culture. I've never worked anywhere with male heavy Leadership Team, I've never worked anywhere where any Safeguarding issue was brushed under the carpet.

Even if I had, I wouldn't then think "all workplaces are toxic", I'd think that particular workplace was.

I've chosen to work in an organisation which reflects my values, where the policies and procedures I have to follow make sense to me as necessary to further the business aims, and which is led by, centres and benefits women. I'm in a leadership role because I think I have skills and experience to offer and I get satisfaction from influencing the direction we take.
My salary is so poor many people on here would think there was a zero missed off.

I can't imagine many schools would brush serious safeguarding issues under the carpet and if they are - then surely there is a whistleblowing procedure if you think things are not being dealt with properly - you can't just sit back and be witness to that type of thing being mismanaged.

I find that places with fewer egos have a way better atmosphere, offices are bad.

Not every workplace is toxic. I know this because I worked somewhere for 13 years and apart from one incident with a passive aggressive manager it was a lovely place to work for 12/13 years. However in the last year that I was there the whole place totally changed, they brought in a horrible senior leader and the other senior leaders could not see how vile this person was, and the changes she brought in were very badly managed. It became a horrible toxic workplace, with everyone moaning and complaining and back stabbing. I left. Others left. Everyone I know who still works there hates the place now and all they talk about is how good it used to be. My only regret is not leaving sooner as it severely effected my mental health.

Is there an inherent indignity in working for someone else?

No. Only if you resent authority.

YABU. I've worked with some fabulous people in my career, so no, not all workplaces are toxic by any means.

Thanks so much for all of your comments.
I bought a great book called, Rising Above a Toxic Workplace which is already helping me puzzle this stuff out.
I know and am aware that I bring my own ‘stuff’ to the table which could play in to my experience in an unfavourable way.
I’ve always been told I’m over- sensitive and have never quite been able to get in the boxing ring and play the game with all its layers of emotional rough and tumble and I’m aware some people are really cut out for that.

Im just going to carry out an experiment where I go on a negativity diet and even the slightest hint of negativity from colleagues I’m just going to consciously tap out of and see how my mental state looks after a term of doing that.
eventually though I imagine I’ll do self employed work.
thanks again for your insights.

ps. I too have worked with some incredibly kind, funny, inspiring and lovely people over the years so I know it’s never all bad.

I have just noticed that I often end up feeling disempowered in the workplace but it probably says as much about my default settings as it does about the workplaces themselves.

I think it's a mix at times, I prefer to try to dance between all the various groups, some times its possible other times others get suspicious of the motives.

The most toxic place I ever worked was a school. Never again. If people weren’t gossiping they were shagging behind their spouse’s back with a colleague and I HATED knowing that happened

I have to disagree. Maybe I’ve got lucky but I’ve worked in my profession for ten years and for three different employers. In every case, I was surrounded by supportive colleagues and managers, in a job I really enjoy. The only reason for leaving those jobs were good opportunities for career advancement elsewhere that weren’t necessarily going to come up soon where I was. I would have happily stayed and left on good terms.

Yep. 80% of women bullied are bullied by other women. But we’re completely gaslit about this and men are always portrayed as the problem.

Basically think of it like the game of thrones and your channeling the personality of varys.
Or if you prefer the Borgia's with Machiavellian philosophy etc

Or the good wife and it's the personality of eli gold.

Problem is not practicing what you preach that goes for both public and private sector which I have worked.

"Mental health and wellbeing of staff is so important to us" but the same company expects you to hit unrealistic targets at times and if you do not meet them you get called in and said "why are you not hitting the targets." Unfortunately for most workplaces you are just a number and not a person. They only care about you making money for them, their shareholders etc.. Plus loyalty has gone out the door. The same job will say you performed so well but fire you the next year because of cuts.

Honestly all workplaces aren’t amazing are they. Let’s face it if we didn’t have bills to pay we wouldn’t do it.

I think everyone’s pretty fed up with going to these places and sometimes they say or do shit that causes atmosphere etc.

The man manager thing? I work somewhere with high up female managers and my team leader is a man. This place feels pretty toxic tbh. Lack of support, unboundaried/ random manager who is sometimes super supportive and sometimes goes out of his way to put dick comments o. The group chat. Honestly not sure if the place has lost sight of things through working from home or what.

prior to this I’ve worked at places with male/ female direct managers and everyone’s been overworked etc. people say shit but if you get on with your job you’re fine 🤷‍♀️

I hope you find your place OP

Schools are notoriously toxic, I worked in one for 12 years and was horrified at the complete lack of support from SLT and other colleagues when I desperately needed them to speak up for me. The staff were predominantly female, the few men that worked there were lazy, mansplaining cunts who coasted along doing the bare minimum but expected to be promoted over much more qualified female colleagues.

I too reported several safeguarding issues that got completely ignored because they couldn’t be bothered with the hassle of investigating them.

Where I work now feels like paradise in comparison so I don’t think all workplaces are toxic but most schools probably are.

Are you reading this direct from your mission statement?

There’s a lot about this post and some of the answers that make me sad. Work places definitely shouldn’t be toxic. If you work somewhere that is, I really hope you can get out. I’ve experienced it in the past and just thought that was the way it was and found it difficult to get out as it crushed my confidence. I was lucky enough to find myself made redundant for a toxic job and found a job in a lovely company. It was very enlightening. That opened my eyes to the fact that a company has to be good enough for me. Six years later I had to find a new job again and I made sure I found another good company. I realise it’s not always that easy but please know there are good people, good cultures and good companies out there. And you deserve to find the place that’s right for you!

I also dispute the idea that all women are bitchy. I’m definitely not. My friends are definitely not, my boss is definitely not and any colleagues who were would not last long.

Keep your standards high!

YABU. Not every workplace is like that, I’ve worked in some very positive organisations where generally everyone was built up and encouraged and bitchy gossip wasn’t allowed. Small charities and businesses seemed to be best

ive worked in some horrible places though. Worst was a massive sales corporation. So very cut throat.

It sounds as though you have been really unlucky, I am approaching the end my working life and have honestly never experienced any toxic behaviour at work .. the occasional person who was a bit 'off' or lazy but never any bitchy behaviour. I have never dreaded going into work .. in fact I am hoping I have made the right decision to retire. And for the record, most of the teams I have worked in were mainly female.