To think all workplaces are toxic?

[Stripeymum11]

Is there an inherent indignity in working for someone else?

I’ve worked for years now in schools and am starting to think that I’m just never going to be thick-skinned enough to properly thrive in them.

Each time we adults get a new job, we have to familiarise ourselves with the written policies of a place then, regardless of any personal feelings, have to become a representative of that organisation. Fine. That’s just reality, I shove down my core values and give my time in exchange for money.

But it’s the unwritten policies that really upset me. The cultures of bitchy gossip, the male heavy leadership teams that don’t seem to do very much, the brushing (important safeguarding) issues under the carpet, the passive aggressive management, the reactive management styles.

How so people drag themselves through full time work, knowing they have to endure all of this crap for at least 30 more years without becoming just as bad or really depressed?

Is this what attracts people to leadership roles? So they’re not at the mercy of cruel management themselves?

AIBU

If it's such an indignity working for someone else and so awful burying your core values, go set up your own business. That way you'll have your dignity and core values in tact.

My last company was awful. My current one is fantastic. When I look around the office people are generally happy and smiling. They are supportive and nice to eachother. You need to keep looking I think.

I work in an extremely toxic place. Have only been there for just over a year however in that time mental health had been seriously impacted. I handed in my notice this week. I don't have another job to go to yet but I don't care. Other places I've worked at previously have been so much better. I wish I hadn't left my previous job.

Agree with this. I work in the veterinary sector, which is majority female (although still a large gender pay gap which is another story). I’m currently in an all-women work place. You get variable quality managers, edicts from corporate management which don’t always make sense, and the occasional ruffled feathers between humans who aren’t always going to get along perfectly, but I don’t believe women are any more difficult to work with. My work place is incredibly supportive - people looking out for each other, meeting outside of work etc.

if anything, I think with women, it’s more often stress/confrontation avoidance that causes tension and grumbling rather than competitiveness and ego. But that’s just my experience.

The problem is "work" is a collection of adults forced to be together rather than being together through shared mutual interest.

So yes personality clashes happen, gossip, arguments and all sorts because of the nature of the environment.

You strike gold if you get to work and realise your immediate team are like minded people, personalities that gel with you, and you form friendships, but many people find that's not the case generally.

Me, I just keep my head down, do my work, am pleasant to everyone, get along with everyone, go home, collect my pay.

Yes there's gossip around me (I don't get involved)

yes there are arguments and personality clashes around me (but I don get involved).

I'm paid to do what my contract asks of me, I stick to it, do it well and clock out.

Life is easier when you just don't get involved. 🤣

I am doing everything in my power to set up my kids so that they are self-employed in the future because if there anything like me they’ll be unemployable by the time the 30. As soon as you start to see through the bullshit, you can’t on see it.

No they are not all toxic, although most are. My current workplace is great, but we do work remote most of the time so maybe that makes a difference as there is little chance to become toxic.

I honestly don’t recognise your experience. I work in a professional environment in an office and I genuinely like my colleagues. They aren’t my friends per se but I’ve no doubt they’d look after me if needed.

To be honest, I hate all these arguments that it's all down to women or all down to men. I've worked for great male bosses and awful ones. My last boss was absolutely brilliant and the team was mainly women who got on really well. Then my boss left was relaxed by a woman. I really liked her. She was so funny. But she was an absolutely useless manager and no one could stay working for her. A strong thriving dept has now all but closed down. The new manager of my mums care home is a woman and she's dreadful. All the staff are leaving. It makes me so sad for my mum but I can't blame them because she's beyond hopeless. Actually unsafe I'd say.
And I used to be in a male dominated job and men can gossip just as much as women, they just couch it differently.

I've never worked in a school, only in the NHS. I've been in one toxic workplace - I left that job and was on the edge of burnout when I did it. I've had one job where I was made redundant where the tide was turning and not in a good way. All my other NHS jobs have been in workplaces that were warm, caring, supportive and friendly. My current workplace is absolutely fabulous, I look forward to going to work every day. I think you've been spectacularly unlucky, though I can imagine that schools have a greater tendency towards toxicity given the pressure they're under.

I can relate to your post @Stripeymum11 I've worked in several horrible places. If you're really lucky you get to work somewhere that is overall good, but a lot of places aren't great for various reasons. I'm really glad you're getting helpful responses on this thread. When I posted something similar a few years ago I was told by the majority if most of the places I worked were horrible then it was me that was the problem!

I'm the only woman on the factory floor (there is 1 other in the office), and it's great. If there is an issue it's discussed, dealt with and then everybody moves on with no dramas whatsoever. The same could not be said of the other 4 places I have worked during my entire working life (40 years), all of which have had women working there.

My career spanned 32 years and I had six work places, one was toxic out of those six and one place had a couple of awful people in it but it was manageable. One of the two awful people appeared on my TikTok feed today, uuggh! I worked in three places that were truly wonderful and the last one was fine just neutral really. Overall I think I was lucky.

I’ve never encountered gossips at work. Yes, workplaces can have issues - you’re not friends - but if you’re working somewhere which is broadly unsupportive then move.

From friends and this forum though it does sound to me like schools suffer more than other places. My workplace is friendly and professional on the whole

It’s quite hard to do that if you’re a primary school teacher. I’ve thought about becoming a dyslexia assessor/ tutor but I love having a class.
Food for thought anyway!
Thank you 😺

Not my current experience, but have had this in the past.

Too many people become managers based on technical or specialist knowledge not on ability to manage people, and never given enough time to manage.

Most places I've worked have been great.

Absolutely not, and have worked for nearly 40 years in predominantly female based professions ( beauty therapy and nursing).
I've had 14 jobs in that time and 2 were what you might call toxic, one certainly was.

I really don't like people blaming women for toxic work places, there are plenty of horrible male workplaces. My ex worked in construction and at times was treated horribly.

I think you've probably been unlucky op.

I don't understand posts this post and others like it. Is it self loathing or do you see yourself as being above other women/not like other girls? Do you turn into a gossipy bitch when you are around other women? I just don't get how you can include half of the population in these stereotypes but then exclude yourself from it? Either women are that way, you included or they are not.

There are schools and there are schools.

I've been in toxic ones where getting through the week is a triumph of needing the bills paid over the desire to tell them to go fuck themselves, walk out the door and never look back. And I've been in ones where actually, despite the stresses, despite the occasional twat needing to be either brought back into line and encouraged to behave like a decent human being or to fuck off, the underlying culture is of caring for each other and supporting everybody to get through the tough times. If people feel valued and supported, the culture is fundamentally positive. The key is to have staff at all levels onboard with the idea of valuing one another. If you don't feel valued, it's harder to have a thicker skin, as everything feels like a direct attack (largely because it probably is - often attack being the first means of defence) - but if you know you are genuinely valued, frayed tempers or frustration/tiredness/overwhelm are much easier to not take so personally and you can support others in the knowledge that they will try and do the same for you.

Valuing somebody isn't just pay, it's also in how they're spoken to, whether they're listened to, whether their abilities or skills are allowed to be developed and respected.

You can set up your own private education business doing coaching, online teaching, etc. Or you can leave education altogether. You're an educated person with good qualifications. You could set up another type of business.
I took voluntary redundancy from teaching and then got worried how I'd support myself! But a colleague who had done all sorts within education, said there were all sorts of streams of income to be earned within the sector.

Don't compromise your core values and your dignity. If you're unhappy, strike out. Its perfectly possible to do some small class teaching within private coaching. Or go down to part time in school and part time private to get the best of both worlds.

Yes, l beliv that they are. Husband currently works in a male oriented workplace where it is rife with toxicity.

YABU, lots of workplaces are actually pretty nice places to work in with generally nice people to work with.

I've worked in 7 different firms over 40 years and I'd say only one of those would meet your experience as per the opening post, i.e. bitchiness, poor management etc. The other 6 were actually OK places to work and I only left due to career enhancement or relocation.

The one that was poorly managed with lots of bitchiness was, sadly, dominated by women at all levels, i.e. owners, managers, and most of the staff, and was an absolute hell hole to work in, and I decided to leave within the first month of being there as the whole place was toxic, full of cliques, no support from management, etc.

All the others were owned/managed by a mix of both males and females, and were generally nicer places to work, more supportive management, more supportive co-workers, etc.

Nope. I've worked in nice places, great places. Only 2 were not good, of which one was very toxic. Everyone I know has had one toxic place, but not numerous.

That toxic element is not something I’ve experienced at an organisational level, having worked in software development for 25 years in large tech companies. However, of course I’ve met some awful people, but that can happen anywhere.

my biggest challenges are constant schedule pressure, crunch mode, competitive peers, crazy hours, always on, but the salary is very good. I’m not sure I’d be good at anything else!