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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To sack him?

74 replies

Definitelynotagoodidea · 12/07/2023 23:24

My DH owns a small company of 5 staff. Offered a job to someone last year who accepted the position but still had work to complete before they could join (self employed) and estimated around 8 weeks work before they could start. Agreed to hold the position.

The start date got dragged further and further out and my DH took this guy on as a subcontractor for a few days a month as he is great at his actual job.

Around 2 months ago, he finally confirmed they could start with us full time however because of the unreliability he had shown we asked them to complete a full month of their (to be) contracted hours before we would offer a contract. Since then we have had a number of issues:

Lied about points on his driving licence making it extremely expensive to insure him on a work vehicle
Got a parking ticket on the first week of using the work vehicle and did not inform us (found out by chance)
He has a number of major mental health issues that he will regularly text my DH about but more importantly, he seems to think he can pick and choose his hours and he will often message my DH to advise he has left half way through the day or that he can’t come in at all due to (pick any excuse but mainly relating to his MH or marital issues). He will always make up his hours but it’s impossible to run the business effectively as there are other staff that rely on his work being done within his “contracted” hours and therefore it puts everything several days behind and essentially loses the business money.
Asks to borrow money of my DH regularly for various reasons (his kids birthday etc) which my DH has obliged but has not seen any sign of this being repaid. The money he owes is approximately at £600 now.

Basically, his personal life is a mess and he has disclosed to my DH that he is in a lot of debt (to where bailiffs are involved) and that he’s been suicidal. My DH lost a friend to suicide in his 20’s and I know he is concerned what will happen if he lets him go.

It’s impacting my DH hugely as he is working all hours to pick up the slack and in general is completely drained by this guys constant issues.

I’m all for sacking him because I consider him to be using my DH as his personal therapist/bank while also causing him no end of stress when he doesn’t turn up to work/messes his other staff about. DH is hoping he’ll change as he’s great at his job (when he turns up) but acknowledges it can’t continue as it is.

So less of a AIBU and more of a WWYD?

OP posts:

Northernsouloldies · 12/07/2023 23:33

Usually I'm all for the worker but in this instance the guy is just in the door and causing your Dh no end of headaches. It's not like he's been with your firm for years and employee has hit a rough patch. Let him go your husband ain't his keeper.

CloverHilla · 12/07/2023 23:39

I think this guy will be, already is, more hassle than he worth. So while he's still in probation period I'd let him go.

MrsPinkCock · 12/07/2023 23:42

Why did your DH lend him money 🤦‍♀️ and why is he blurring professional boundaries by acting as a therapist?

The optimum time would have been to have let him go at the point you found out that he had lied, but you can’t really rely on that now.

I suppose my concern would be that he would try and manufacture a disability discrimination claim based on his MH issues if he didn’t get offered a contract when one had been promised to him (he’s still legally protected in this situation as a prospective employee!) But if you have it in writing that he would only be offered a permanent contract if he worked those hours self employed first, and you have evidence that he didn’t meet that obligation, then that strengthens your position somewhat. It’s still not ideal though.

Personally I’d let him go anyway as it’s clear he’s not going to be a great employee!

Oceanus · 13/07/2023 00:02

Asks to borrow money of my DH regularly for various reasons (his kids birthday etc) which my DH has obliged but has not seen any sign of this being repaid.
This alone is enough to say: sorry, we're not a good match.

HelplessSoul · 13/07/2023 05:34

No idea why you even need to ask.

Sack him. He owes you money. You owe him nothing.

DinoSaw · 13/07/2023 05:43

Technically you aren’t sacking him. You’re withdrawing a job offer due to poor performance as a contractor.

you may also be terminating the contractor/free lance relationship you currently have. It’s hard to tell from your post but I’m assuming you’re close to the end of the agreed month. It’s probably worth just paying him for whatever the remaining hours would be if you want a clean break now.

IsThatHuw · 13/07/2023 05:44

He needs to go. You have tried but this isn’t a good match and if your DH wants to maintain and grow his business he’s going to need to get used to difficult decisions like this.

The bigger issue is reputation damage to your DHs business - what’s the cost of that? £600 will look like small fry if you start losing contracts because of it.

ChubbyMorticia · 13/07/2023 05:48

Nope. He’s playing your dh like a fiddle. Get rid of him, sue for the money owed.

Bogeyes · 13/07/2023 05:51

Sack him. He won't change...thecsituation will get much worse! Is he using cocaine? Weed?

PriOn1 · 13/07/2023 06:00

I’m guessing that you don’t actually need this thread to find out whether it’s reasonable to let the man go, but rather to persuade your husband. I hope you manage as this isn’t going to go away and if he stays, he will have a lot more rights later and it will be difficult to establish he’s unreasonable then as he will have been granted the leeway to do all this in the early days. I feel sorry for your husband getting sucked in, but unfortunately I think he’s going to have to take the risk of letting this guy go. Otherwise his business might go under and all the other staff might lose their jobs, assuming they hadn’t already walked because this guy was making their working life unsatisfactory.

Good luck, OP.

BishyBarnyBee · 13/07/2023 06:01

Is there an option of spelling out what the issues are and giving him a final warning? That seems like good practice to me.

GoblinAeroplane · 13/07/2023 06:02

Is he trying to keep his own business going on the side? If his money troubles are that bad, he may be trying to do both for a while to up his income enough to clear the debt. That may be where he's disappearing to.

When he's leaving early is he informing your DH or asking his permission? Or how is your DH replying. Just wondering how to make sure you word the dismissal in a way that makes it clear it's not disability related. I'd keep it clean - just say it's not a good fit, but give no reasons. Or pick the driving license one if you need to.

Also, make sure you have it in contracts that employees can't have other jobs without written permission from your DH.

Good luck, I'm sure you can find someone better suited.

Kimchikitchen · 13/07/2023 06:04

For lying about his points alone would mean he would never work for me

Kimchikitchen · 13/07/2023 06:08

*Asks to borrow money of my DH regularly for various reasons (his kids birthday etc) which my DH has obliged but has not seen any sign of this being repaid. The money he owes is approximately at £600 now. *

presumably from family money?

Twobyfour · 13/07/2023 06:12

Work out how much he has “cost” (money owed, increased insurance costs and fines, lost money due to delays caused by him, extra your husband has to do) against the “benefit” of his work.

PandaPacer · 13/07/2023 06:20

As someone currently going through a massive issue at my workplace with a staff member, I advise you to get rid NOW.

My spidey senses went off at the start with this guy. But I doubted myself. Never again.

knockyknees · 13/07/2023 06:37

I agree with previous posters that you need to get rid of him.

What are the legalities of recouping/withholding the 600 that he owes you from any wages you owe him? Could the money be classed as payment in advance?

Aprilx · 13/07/2023 06:45

Yes I think you need to cut him loose. But at the same time I do not understand your current terms of engagement with him. If he is still currently contracting then he is allowed to pick and choose his hours. You can pick his hours if he is an employee in which case you are legally obliged to issue him a statement of written particulars and you have a probationary period if you have concerns.

thirtyfivethirtyeight · 13/07/2023 06:50

I would personally have a meeting with him, discuss the issues and give him one chance to improve/work within boundaries. It may be that this behaviour has followed him all his life and no one has ever properly told him, so might be worth doing that but advising it's a final warning and if there's any repeat behaviour, you'll let him go.

Wallywobbles · 13/07/2023 07:01

Why is this even a question. You are literally buying in trouble. How would you feel if today was his last day? Relief?

Original poster

Definitelynotagoodidea · 13/07/2023 07:13

GoblinAeroplane · 13/07/2023 06:02

Also, make sure you have it in contracts that employees can't have other jobs without written permission from your DH.

Good luck, I'm sure you can find someone better suited.

Anything is possible but I doubt he is taking on new work. He has no money to keep his business going on the side. One of the reasons the start date was so delayed was because he was completing a job for a client but he’d ran out of money to finish the job. He told us the client was vulnerable and therefore he didn’t feel as though he could charge them for the additional work that needed doing. Looking at it now, I suspect he’d taken the whole payment upfront and blown it leaving the job half finished.

He doesn’t ask permission to leave early, he’ll just say “I’ve had to leave but I’ll be in at (stupid o’clock tomorrow or whenever) to complete X. Problem is that he needs one of DH’s other guys to help him complete X which means they are also subject to his ridiculous hours.

My DH has been reluctant to rock the boat as he had taken on a large contract with a strict deadline and so has felt he’s not really had much choice but to accept all this in order to just get the work completed in time. However, we are now nearing the end of this project and so decisions now need to be made about this guys future.

OP posts:

FOJN · 13/07/2023 07:21

He has to go before he ruins your business the way he ruined his own and causing you untold stress in the meantime.

Your other staff may start to wonder why they make the effort to be reliable and conscientious when you are rolling out the red carpet for a chancer.

FlamingoQueen · 13/07/2023 07:41

Can he take him on as a subcontractor, therefore not employing him directly? I would say that as he lied about his driving licence, that is enough grounds to not employee him directly.
You also have the reputation of your company to think about - bailiffs, parking tickets (was he parked causing issues for everyone else whilst in a company vehicle?). I would not mention the MH because you can’t say that’s a reason not to employ someone.

topnoddy · 13/07/2023 07:49

It really is a no brainer for me .

He's lied to get the position and is causing you grief now he's started .

You should get shot of him

CJat10 · 13/07/2023 07:52

I fear for your business if you can't manage an obvious staffing decision like this. This man will ruin you. Get rid

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