To sack him?

[Definitelynotagoodidea]

My DH owns a small company of 5 staff. Offered a job to someone last year who accepted the position but still had work to complete before they could join (self employed) and estimated around 8 weeks work before they could start. Agreed to hold the position.

The start date got dragged further and further out and my DH took this guy on as a subcontractor for a few days a month as he is great at his actual job.

Around 2 months ago, he finally confirmed they could start with us full time however because of the unreliability he had shown we asked them to complete a full month of their (to be) contracted hours before we would offer a contract. Since then we have had a number of issues:

• Lied about points on his driving licence making it extremely expensive to insure him on a work vehicle
• Got a parking ticket on the first week of using the work vehicle and did not inform us (found out by chance)
• He has a number of major mental health issues that he will regularly text my DH about but more importantly, he seems to think he can pick and choose his hours and he will often message my DH to advise he has left half way through the day or that he can’t come in at all due to (pick any excuse but mainly relating to his MH or marital issues). He will always make up his hours but it’s impossible to run the business effectively as there are other staff that rely on his work being done within his “contracted” hours and therefore it puts everything several days behind and essentially loses the business money.
• Asks to borrow money of my DH regularly for various reasons (his kids birthday etc) which my DH has obliged but has not seen any sign of this being repaid. The money he owes is approximately at £600 now.

Basically, his personal life is a mess and he has disclosed to my DH that he is in a lot of debt (to where bailiffs are involved) and that he’s been suicidal. My DH lost a friend to suicide in his 20’s and I know he is concerned what will happen if he lets him go.

It’s impacting my DH hugely as he is working all hours to pick up the slack and in general is completely drained by this guys constant issues.

I’m all for sacking him because I consider him to be using my DH as his personal therapist/bank while also causing him no end of stress when he doesn’t turn up to work/messes his other staff about. DH is hoping he’ll change as he’s great at his job (when he turns up) but acknowledges it can’t continue as it is.

So less of a AIBU and more of a WWYD?

Only if that was explicitly agree at the time of the loan for goodness sakes!

This is going to sound horrible, but I have been conned by an employee like this. Most probably he knows you need him to complete the job, he has laid out his sob story and most of what he will be telling you is lies. That and he can do what he likes, not bothered about the rest of the team. I would get rid as soon as this job is done. It’s much easier to be short on a team member than deal with one persons shit all the time.
That said, if someone is just telling you when they are working and you are bending over to them rather than saying no that’s a management issue. The rest of the team will see this and it won’t be great, ether they will start to do the same thing or they will leave due to the problems it causes them.

@AuroraForever

I have already asked this and OP has chosen to ignore my questions. Whilst this individual doesn’t sound like somebody I would want to employe either, equally OP and her husband sound unfit to be employers and seem to be ignoring employment law based on what they have said about getting him in to work but not on a contract, makes no sense whatsoever.

He is clearly too unreliable to keep on. His car crash of a personal life really isn't your circus. Don't get any more invested than you already have. It isn't going to get any better. It seems there have been ample opportunities to have let him go already.

You will be forever learning when it comes to staffing! I think you’ve got two options here,

Sack him, accept the £600 loss and move on or you have an informal meeting with him where you remind him of what is expected of him (working hours etc.) and discuss a re-payment plan. You should then follow up everything that was discussed in writing.

I think option 1 is best given he is a new employee.

You will, out of his wages.

@RedHelenB

that would only be possible if it was agreed at the time of the loan that it would be paid back via wages.

my guess is that this dh didn’t give any deadline or conditions to the loan.

But surely MH doesn't excuse lying about the points on his licence even if all the other issues can be overlooked due to this.

OP you need to be clearer about your employment T&Cs. Specify the maximum allowable number of points on a driving licence, either don't loan employees money, or make sure there's an agreement about repayment etc.

You could have the 'this is one last chance and we expect X, Y and Z' talk with him but require him to get help with his money and health troubles. This might be a good start for him:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/mental-health-guide/

Or you could just get rid and look for someone else.

Op I think your DH would be wise to use an HR / Legal company because you’re a fairly new business and both of you sound very ill equipped to deal with this side of running a business. Your leaving yourselves vulnerable to employment disputes

If what the OP says about this employee is right I don't think there is much room for any dispute if they got rid of then

None whatsoever

but he’s a contractor anyway so there wouldn’t be a dispute anyway

@BarbaraofSeville

But surely MH doesn't excuse lying about the points on his licence even if all the other issues can be overlooked due to this

I never said it did excuse the other things.

I got the impression he has been taken on as an employee after being a contractor .
Either way there is no way I would have even thought about giving him a full time contract given his track record

No it haven’t happened yet

Around 2 months ago, he finally confirmed they could start with us full time however because of the unreliability he had shown we asked them to complete a full month of their (to be) contracted hours before we would offer a contract. Since then we have had a number of issues:

My point was to send the confirmation
I asked a few times and no response
then the op said she did send the confirmation
which puts a different slant on the buyer because now she can explicitly see that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the Op to provide a ticket even if it wasn’t how the website worked, because she physically doesn’t have the tickets!

He doesn't need to be "sacked" then does he !
Just tell him that you no longer have any work for him .

I'm at a total loss as to why the OP and her DP would even consider giving this person a full time contract anyway

Perhaps this is more a DH issue than an employee issue? I think he's going to have to toughen up.

I'm at a total loss as to why the OP and her DP would even consider giving this person a full time contract anyway

inexperience

And stop using family money to give liars £600

Yes, this seems to make it clear that he's doing a month as a subcontractor, prior to being taken on as an employee, which is an important distinction meaning the use of the phrase 'to sack him' in the title is misleading.

Therefore it seems to be more of a case of withdrawing the offer of employment, rather than sacking him, which they're free to do in the first two years of employment anyway, for any reason as long as it's not discriminatory.

Added to which, even if he was on a contract - presumably he would still be on probation (although I suspect the op and her dh haven’t incorporated this in their contracts!)

I'm very confused by this one @Kimchikitchen , is it in response to a different thread?

Agree that whatever his status currently is, you need to get rid of him @Definitelynotagoodidea

Sorry wrong thread that point