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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To sack him?

74 replies

Definitelynotagoodidea · 12/07/2023 23:24

My DH owns a small company of 5 staff. Offered a job to someone last year who accepted the position but still had work to complete before they could join (self employed) and estimated around 8 weeks work before they could start. Agreed to hold the position.

The start date got dragged further and further out and my DH took this guy on as a subcontractor for a few days a month as he is great at his actual job.

Around 2 months ago, he finally confirmed they could start with us full time however because of the unreliability he had shown we asked them to complete a full month of their (to be) contracted hours before we would offer a contract. Since then we have had a number of issues:

  • Lied about points on his driving licence making it extremely expensive to insure him on a work vehicle
  • Got a parking ticket on the first week of using the work vehicle and did not inform us (found out by chance)
  • He has a number of major mental health issues that he will regularly text my DH about but more importantly, he seems to think he can pick and choose his hours and he will often message my DH to advise he has left half way through the day or that he can’t come in at all due to (pick any excuse but mainly relating to his MH or marital issues). He will always make up his hours but it’s impossible to run the business effectively as there are other staff that rely on his work being done within his “contracted” hours and therefore it puts everything several days behind and essentially loses the business money.
  • Asks to borrow money of my DH regularly for various reasons (his kids birthday etc) which my DH has obliged but has not seen any sign of this being repaid. The money he owes is approximately at £600 now.

Basically, his personal life is a mess and he has disclosed to my DH that he is in a lot of debt (to where bailiffs are involved) and that he’s been suicidal. My DH lost a friend to suicide in his 20’s and I know he is concerned what will happen if he lets him go.

It’s impacting my DH hugely as he is working all hours to pick up the slack and in general is completely drained by this guys constant issues.

I’m all for sacking him because I consider him to be using my DH as his personal therapist/bank while also causing him no end of stress when he doesn’t turn up to work/messes his other staff about. DH is hoping he’ll change as he’s great at his job (when he turns up) but acknowledges it can’t continue as it is.

So less of a AIBU and more of a WWYD?

OP posts:
Swannyb · 13/07/2023 07:58

Hire Slow, Fire Fast...

I know it may sound brutal, but we're really quite firm on this in my business. If you're already having issues and getting a bad feeling about someone early on when you would assume they're on their best behaviour, trust your gut and move them along. Fortunately it hasn't happened too many times, but the longer they are there, the harder it is to get rid of them.

Original poster
Definitelynotagoodidea · 13/07/2023 08:11

CJat10 · 13/07/2023 07:52

I fear for your business if you can't manage an obvious staffing decision like this. This man will ruin you. Get rid

As with a lot of these things, it seems a simple decision on paper. The reality of it is that my DH will need a replacement for him and his skill level which will be difficult to find. When a replacement is found we could be waiting another few months for them to be able to start. The guys in this type of job unfortunately have a reputation for being unreliable and we could just end up in a similar situation several months down the line. We also need to manage the situation carefully as burning bridges will not be a good thing and we may still need to use him as a subcontractor for the occasional job.

OP posts:
Original poster
Definitelynotagoodidea · 13/07/2023 08:17

Swannyb · 13/07/2023 07:58

Hire Slow, Fire Fast...

I know it may sound brutal, but we're really quite firm on this in my business. If you're already having issues and getting a bad feeling about someone early on when you would assume they're on their best behaviour, trust your gut and move them along. Fortunately it hasn't happened too many times, but the longer they are there, the harder it is to get rid of them.

Thank you, this is a good mantra. We are a relatively young business (in our third year) so still learning.

OP posts:
Kimchikitchen · 13/07/2023 15:59

Definitelynotagoodidea · 13/07/2023 08:11

As with a lot of these things, it seems a simple decision on paper. The reality of it is that my DH will need a replacement for him and his skill level which will be difficult to find. When a replacement is found we could be waiting another few months for them to be able to start. The guys in this type of job unfortunately have a reputation for being unreliable and we could just end up in a similar situation several months down the line. We also need to manage the situation carefully as burning bridges will not be a good thing and we may still need to use him as a subcontractor for the occasional job.

Show quote history

Yes but loaning him £600?!

topnoddy · 13/07/2023 16:17

If you can't get hold of reliable staff then it sounds like a really crap business to be in doesn't it .

Original poster
Definitelynotagoodidea · 13/07/2023 16:20

Kimchikitchen · 13/07/2023 15:59

Yes but loaning him £600?!

Show quote history

Argh, I know. Part of that was paying his parking ticket, part was a loan towards work equipment, part was so he could send the bailiffs away and obviously his kids birthday. Sounds ridiculous written down but he’s done a good job of spinning a sob story and my DH has fallen for the whole “my kids will be homeless with no gifts on their birthday” line. We’ve accepted we probably won’t be getting that money back.

OP posts:
Fightyouforthatpie · 13/07/2023 16:22

topnoddy · 13/07/2023 16:17

If you can't get hold of reliable staff then it sounds like a really crap business to be in doesn't it .

^This.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 13/07/2023 16:25

Has your dh had him in?

I’d go down this route first and then if he doesn’t improve then he gets dismissed.

He May step up meaning your dh completes his contact or he doesn’t and your dh can find another trade.

DPotter · 13/07/2023 16:25

It's a reluctant sack him from me. Has your DH actually sat him down and said walking off the job is not on ? Not that he should have to really, but your DH does sound a bit of a soft touch.

You have a business to think of. You have staff you employ. You will have your own bills to pay. Your existing staff will start to get pissed off with him soon, if they aren't already.
He's basically behaving as if he is still self employed. As for the £600 - can you treat it as a salary advance and deduct from his final pay ? Note I said final there

DinnaeFashYersel · 13/07/2023 16:26

Yes dismiss him.

But by very careful not to include his mental ill health as that could be grounds for discrimination.

Original poster
Definitelynotagoodidea · 13/07/2023 16:30

topnoddy · 13/07/2023 16:17

If you can't get hold of reliable staff then it sounds like a really crap business to be in doesn't it .

We’re hoping we’ve just been unlucky with this guy but most at his skill level are employed as subcontractors and it’s not usual to have someone full time. We naively assumed by offering a full time contract with all the perks and protection that comes with it, that it would buy reliability. Clearly this has not worked out.

OP posts:
drpet49 · 13/07/2023 16:38

Kimchikitchen · 13/07/2023 06:04

For lying about his points alone would mean he would never work for me

This. I don’t even know why you are questioning whether to sack him. You and your husband sound like right chumps.

Therealjudgejudy · 13/07/2023 16:40

You and your husband dont sound like you should be running a business if you are asking this question.

Of course you let him go. The longer you wait, the worse it will be. Also, your other staff will loose all respect for you

Merryoldgoat · 13/07/2023 16:41

Personally I’d fire him BUT if that’s genuinely tricky in terms of replacement then you need to come down hard.

I’d tell him that you are sorry he is experiencing difficulties but you’ve been supportive and this hasn’t gone well. That you will be putting him on 6 months probation. In order to pass he will need to be at work for his contracted hours without fail. If you he is ill you are not able to pay anything other than SSP. He will need to pay back the loan at a rate of X (don’t know how much the loan is proportionally so 1 month/8 months etc.

do you have an employee assistance line for employees? Give him thar if so for discussing issues or tell him to head to GP but that you need to have a better demarcation between work and personal life.

Managing people in this way is hard work and I wouldn’t do it, but it’s an option if necessary to keep hold of him.

Meeting · 13/07/2023 16:45

Sack him before all the other workers decide they can make their own rules too.

Hibiscrubbed · 13/07/2023 16:51

Get him gone. And I’m worried for your future if your H is such a drippy mug.

Kimchikitchen · 13/07/2023 16:55

part was so he could send the bailiffs away and obviously his kids birthday.

this has got far far too personal

If your dh is so desperate for employees that he doesn’t want to rock the boat by not hiring this chap - then he’s in a very… interesting industry 🤔

AuroraForever · 13/07/2023 16:58

So is he an employee or is he a self-employed subcontracter/freelancer? The two are very different things when it comes to “sacking”.

If he’s self employed, he’s actually free to come and go whenever he likes and set his own terms. You in this situation have played too easy. You’ve shown you’re not firm and that you fall for sob stories/lies easily and will loan money easily. You are and will be taken advantage of at every turn. To get rid you just say ‘unfortunately there’s no work for you at this present time.’

If he’s employed, you can terminate on the grounds of incompetence. Say it isn’t working out and you will write off the money he owes you if he agrees now to a mutual termination. You’ll have to cut your losses and learn from it not to make the same mistake again.

Don't feel bad about either scenario. He certainly isn’t giving you a second thought. Either way you need to get rid or you will most certainly end up with bigger problems from this guy later down the line (ie he will steal your clients/staff/suppliers/money).

1stTimeMummy2021 · 13/07/2023 17:04

Could you not take out the money from his pay. I worked at a supermarket as a teen and they would give you an advance if you needed it and just take it out of the next paycheck. Once he'd worked the money back I'd fire him though, reliability is so very important in business.

topnoddy · 13/07/2023 17:08

Sounds like this bloke is taking you for a ride to me .

Makes me wonder how much work he would get as a subie if he anything like you state he is .

Might help if you mentioned what it is he does

topnoddy · 13/07/2023 17:08

Does work wise that is

Testina · 13/07/2023 17:09

Your husband is a bit of a wet lettuce, giving away £600 😳

I appreciate what you say that it can be hard to recruit - but you’ve been in this business 3 years, and I bet you haven’t had this much wankery and giving away money to any other employees.

Let him go back to self employed, and offer him work only if you really need to. Or you’ll lose your other staff that keep getting messed about by you, because of him.

bonzaitree · 13/07/2023 17:10

Yeah I would sack him.

Testina · 13/07/2023 17:10

1stTimeMummy2021 · 13/07/2023 17:04

Could you not take out the money from his pay. I worked at a supermarket as a teen and they would give you an advance if you needed it and just take it out of the next paycheck. Once he'd worked the money back I'd fire him though, reliability is so very important in business.

They can’t do that as a retrospective decision - the law around pay deductions is very strict.

WildUnchartedWaters · 13/07/2023 17:10

I can't understand why you're posting online about this. It's really unprofessional and just in really poor taste. The answer is obvious to most, but you've both got yourself in a bit of a mess here.