That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

What stands out to me is you're doing an afternoon school run, in briefly, then put again to an activity multiple times a week, and your day at home is spent largely on swimming lessons.

Do children of that age really need to be doing so many clubs?

I think with 3+ kids a nanny is more efficient, they can look after the younger kids and do drop off/pick up of the older ones sort their dinner, plus take to after school activities as necessary. At least that's what the wealthy families do! A family I know had sort of nanny/slash housekeeper when the children were older (so not in need of qualified childcare), who'd take care of laundry/general daily tidying, and do some meals for the family. Or some had a lot of support from grandparents (live in support some time). If you don't have that support, either from family or paid employees, it's really really hard. Breakfast/after-school clubs, a weekly cleaner etc, isn't really enough help to have a chilled life and 3+ kids!

You must have known it was hard when you only had two children?

This. The swimming lessons can be done much more efficiently- you're wasting valuable time by making it a day out.

Sorry OP but I agree with this. 4 and 1 year olds do not have to have swimming lessons and in your OP you admit that you spend most of your Friday with them doing the lessons. They'd probably be just as happy pootling about at home with a trip to the park mid morning and then you'd get a load more done. You could probably cut right back on your 8yo's activities, too.

I sympathise hugely as I ended up giving up my career to be a SAHM as I felt like I was going mad trying to cope with everything. But I will always regret giving up that career. It's worth trying some adjustments/tweaks to your family week to see if they help. Don't be tempted to give up work unless it's an absolute last resort.

I only have two but trying the whole 'empathy' thing - juggling two was a whole lot tougher than juggling one, particularly at very different stages. Juggling three, I can imagine to be a whole lot tougher again. Plus coming back from mat leave can be a total headfuck (my return from my second was much tougher than my return from my first, partly because of work stuff, partly because two kids is inherently more challenging, and partly because you get less leeway with your subsequent returns to work because everyone things you've got it handled) and OP isn't long back at work.

Im sure she found your comment super helpful though.

Ours are 7 and 9 and I outsource as much as I can. Cleaner, dog walker, laundry and ironing lady, gardener, cars valeted once a month etc.
Plus my lovely mum pops in every day for an hour and empties bins, puts washing away, gives the sinks and toilets a wipe over.
I work 6am-3pm and husband 9.30-5.30 so he does drop offs and I do pick ups.
I'm still constantly knackered tho and feel awful that I'm not around more for them.
I've missed both sports days this year and haven't volunteered for a school trip the whole time they've been in school.

We just had the 2 and only 2 activities after school. I also had/ have work to do in evenings and at least 1 day at the weekends. We survived by getting the kids to muck in as soon as they were able to, but it has still felt like we've been flying by the seat of our pants for the last 14 years.

I think the logistics of three children with quite a large age range is the particular challenge as, at the moment, they are all at very different stages. What childcare do you have? If nursery, would it make sense to get a nanny? That way, swimming lessons could take place on a nanny day and the nanny could also do some of the taxiing around.
Otherwise, it's all about compromise. Does your eldest need to do all of the sport he does? Does the baby need swimming lessons?
Also, where do you live? We're in a village and we have a lot of lift shares going on as all of the activities are in the local town a couple of miles away. One person doesn't actually do any lifts at the moment as she's just had a baby but I'm quite happy with this as it means I can pay her back for a few years ago when she ferried my eldest to an activity I just couldn't get her to due to work.

My mum and my grandma both worked but it wasn't the kind of work as we know it now, it was very part time and the extra cash was for holidays/days out/ nice clothes and not because a mortgage was completely unaffordable on one income.

My grandma had an au-pair to help her (normal middle class family with primary and secondary age children in the early 70s) , my mum was able to be a SAHM in the late 80s and early 90s as my dad's low income job was enough to pay the mortgage.

My great grandma 'had a girl' (age 14ish) come in and help with the children and the cleaning.

None of them needed to go to the gym as they walked and biked everywhere and ultra processed foods weren't ubiquitous and the food shop was a walk round the local butchers, green grocers, bakery etc every few days and lugging it all home not delivered or picked up from a one stop supermarket.

You didn't wash clothes after they had only been worn once so there wasn't as much laundry.

None of them were expecteded to have 2 parents working 40 hour weeks

We've painted ourselves into a situation of self harm when it comes to equal rights.

Instead of having the equal right to be the working parent we've ended up in a situation where we are also the working parent and the at home parent all at the same time. Even in couples where there is a fairly even split of the domestic drudge society still places the expectation and the blame on the woman if the home situation is found wanting as a result of both parents working.

I think you have to accept that not all the clubs etc can be done. I would find one thing that the 8 year old want to do that fits with your schedule and that's it. You should alternate this with your dh.

I have 2 DC so can imagine how hard it is with 3.

Can your eldest drop any of the after school activities?
Is your youngest having swimming lessons? If they are then I would drop these they don’t need swimming lessons at 1. Can you find a closer swimming pool?

Batch cooking/ slow cooker/ ready meals (we have a few places nearby where you can buy freshly cooked healthy ready meals).

Your DH needs to do 50% of the housework. Could he try doing 4 days again as this time you wouldn’t be recovering from a c section you might find it different.

Could your cleaner be increased? Get a gardener so that your DH can help with housework instead of doing the gardening.

Or reducing hours at work.

So we’ve only got 2 kids but are planning a third (with similar age gaps) and your post scares me a bit!

But we feel we are managing well with 2 so far. DH and I both work in senior jobs in the city. I work full time and he works 4 days. Kids are 5 (in reception) and 2.5.

We have a nanny who looks after the 2.5 year old and picks up the 5 yo from school and gives them both their dinner. So DC1 isn’t in after school club, and we don’t have to worry about any drop offs for DC2 or pick ups for either of them - makes a huge difference. I also start quite late (9.45) and live near the office (in London terms - 25mins door to door) so can do all the drop offs for DC1 and feel like we get a lot of quality time in the morning.

I wfh 2 days a week and get through a lot of laundry on those days. We have a cleaner 3hrs/week but I’m thinking of upping it to 2 x 2hrs. All shopping is delivered from a set list weekly. We make the same meals again and again using the slow cooker.

DH does take DC1 swimming after school on his non working day. Other activities are weekends only. DC2 doesn’t do any at all. I don’t see the point in swimming lessons until they’re 4/5 as they can’t actually learn before then. Obviously as DC2 gets older and picks things up then our weekends will be busier, but I like them to have a good amount of downtime after school to relax and play so won’t be packing their schedules for their benefit as much as ours.

I do a bit more of the mental load but that’s because I’m at work 5 days so have more commuting and desk time. DH does a lot more stuff in the house and eg takes full responsibility for the online shop, swimming and medical and dental appointments. I do the kids clothes, activity bookings, nanny admin. It sounds like your DH needs to do more.

Our house is often a tip but it’s mainly kids toys which isn’t too bad. And a lot of the clothes admin is because I haven’t decided whether we’re going to have another so I’m still saving quite a bit of stuff. As your youngest grows you’re increasingly going to be able to just cull everything!

Sorry this was very long, but total solidarity. It’s not easy!

I think that to a certain extent you have to lower your standards and accept that while your children are young things will be a bit chaotic. Try to focus on the absolute priorities and overlook the mess.

Quit the swimming, you need all hands on deck at the moment.

4 and 1 year old do not need swim lessons. You could go swimming as a family at the weekend and that would be fine for now.

DH and I both work FT and have 2 DC aged 6 and 8. Lots of after school activities to juggle and mental load all sits with me despite DH being fairly good. Life is busy but the things that help me are that 1) I mainly work from home so it doesn't take much to chuck a load in the wash or run a mop over the floor between meetings or during lunch break etc and 2) I have low expectations with cleanliness - my house is clean enough but I rarely dust and just do enough for it to be presentable.
It's hard to know what your standards are but I always remember a friend stressing out years back when she had her newborn that she hadn't managed to wash her front door that week. That to me is next level and completely unnecessary so perhaps think about what is really necessary. Decluttering might help if 'stuff' is getting on top of you.

We both worked full time, had 2 children and looked after 2 sets of very elderly (read demanding) parents, one lot beside us and the other 40 miles away. It was tough and we were absolutely slaughtered with no help at all from our siblings who live abroad but we shared the work, didn’t let household tasks or untidiness build up. It was teamwork that got us through. Lack of help from our siblings still makes me angry when I think of it though!!! You will get through it!

If you can afford it (I would choose this over expensive holidays) get a cleaner 2 or even 3 times a week. Someone intelligent with initiative. Finding this will be hard but if you get the right person and spend some time showing them, they will get to know your house really well. They can take over doing things like laundry and putting it away, figure out where random toys go, and even helping with food prep. (eg peeling potatoes or making a salad)

When my house is clean I have more energy and time to tackle random piles myself.

Also on the swimming lessons thing, I too am that parent who had them in swim lessons since they could crawl. And I'm now wondering what the point was. They've stalled hugely in their lessons over recent years as in reality they're not in the actual pool that much during that 30 mins. We're on holiday now in Turkey and I swear my kids have learned to swim in the 10 days we've been here simply by spending about 5 hours a day in the pool!!

Work out the cost of nursery and asc then a nanny

Yes a nanny may be a little more but she can make your life easier

She will do kids washing

Take swimming if want that

Cook meals and many cook extras for freezer

Not sure how many activities eldest does but you need to limit to 2

So when all 3 found them that's 6 to get to - some may be the same

You will never have it all when working and have kids

It’s so hard. We’ve got 2 - a toddler and one in infants. Both kids glorious but absolutely not easygoing 😂 I’ve just had to negotiate a drop in hours to 3 days because something is going to explode in my head if I don’t. Luckily I have an alternative income opportunity where I can earn more for less hours so we should be able to make it work financially. I just keep everything crossed that it’ll ease over time but we’re absolutely in survival mode.

I think the only way it can work here both have high powered careers is when you can afford to pay people to pick up the slack - nannies, cleaners etc. otherwise it's just a case of firefighting.

Part time can also work. Realistically someone generally needs to take a career hit, at least in the short term.

I had one after school activity from about age 9 to 14 which was a piano lesson that started straight after school locally. When I was in secondary school I went to a gym club (in school) which I could easily get myself home from. Anything else had to happen at the weekend.

No advice but you have my sympathies. This is exactly how I feel and exactly how I'd describe my life with DCs aged 1 and 3. I don't know how to fix it, I've toyed with the idea of a house keeper and/or home organiser person on a regular schedule? Effectively to help keep us on track. But I've not done anything about it yet.

It definitely feels impossible at times, especially when everyone gets sick. Which appears to me 90% of the time at the moment, despite it being summer!