That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

I presume then you think it's acceptable for a single parent to not work and live on benefits until their child starts school?

@Beezknees indeed.

@PurpleWisteria1 what would you like single parents to do? What is your magic solution? I’m interested to hear how you square this circle.

@PurpleWisteria1 so you're speaking from your experience of what you have seen in a very specific and rarified environment involving very rich people. You do know most of us are not like that? We work ordinary jobs. We prioritise seeing our children. We put ourselves second to their wellbeing all. The. Time.

It is incredibly offensive to be told we can't do it just because there are women on this thread who cannot. I fully accept that it is much harder now than it was when my DC were young - we get more free childcare, but the childcare we pay for is much more expensive. But I know couples who get it done and make it work every single day. We exist. Accept it and stop slating us.

Wow, what a horrible and unhelpful response!

Because the kids were very small and went to bed early! DH needs to work in our nearest city for his job and wasn’t home sometimes until after 6:30 /7 which meant the kids were in bed. As they grew older, this wasn’t the case as much.
someone needs to work don’t they? Why can’t it be the man if that’s what’s agreed?
ive said it before but I guess I’ll have to repeat- a great dad because he knew he had a partner who had agreed to stay at home with the children. Why would he not be great dad? It would be exactly the same if the roles were reversed so your sexist narrative you keep trying to ram down everyone’s throats doesn’t hold here I’m afraid.

There is no magic solution for single parents and indeed for many partnered parents who absolutely have to both work to make ends meet. As I’ve said upthread, it’s a sad state of affairs as many would love to spend more week days with their young kids but can’t which I think is very wrong- there should be that choice.
Single parents, I just think are amazing for keeping it all going. It must be incredibly tough.

a great dad because he knew he had a partner who had agreed to stay at home with the children. Why would he not be great dad? It would be exactly the same if the roles were reversed

Would it, really? Because you know, I had it in reverse, DH was a SAHD. Let me tell you, not a single person called me a great mum for doing that, and I was way more hands on than your DH at the time.

All I can say is it does get better. I had twins and worked 9.00 to 5.30 five days a week. Luckily I worked just 20 minutes away. I dropped them to breakfast club before work and picked them up from after school club after work. Then I would cook dinner for all of us, hubby (who also worked full time) would clear up and wash up and by the time that was all done and the twins put to bed, it was about 9pm by which time I was completely knackered. There were also evening ballet classes and Saturday swim classes. It was a constant hamster wheel and by Friday the house was like a bombsite with mountains of laundry to be done so weekends were spent getting the house back in order. (we didnt have a cleaner). Looking back I am amazed how I kept going but somehow you just manage to find the energy (I had my twins at 48!). Our annual holidays were an absolute godsend though and made it all worthwhile as I didnt lift a finger. Once they start their secondary school they are way more self-sufficient and the pace is more manageable.

Does that mean single parents shouldn't be expected to work?
Just curious because there is a big expectation that lone parents work from when a child is three now. I work four days and am often asked won't I go full time since I am struggling financially. It's funny how this is expected of a single parent but not a married couple and yet the married couples usually have support with cleaners etc too.

This exactly

We have four children and have always worked full time (sometimes overseas). It is tiring, and standards have slipped a bit. for us, self-employment worked better as we could flex our hours more. We’ve never had to miss a sports day, concert, parents’ evening, etc. We’ve always done homework with the children, taken them to sports clubs, and encouraged their interests.

Standards in the house have slipped a bit - there is always washing around, but I’ve unclenched on that a bit.

Possibly just because its more unusual? I certainly think it’s great - stay at home parent, long term same person who genuinely loves them unconditionally stability that only a family member can give.

I am a single parent and have no financial help or practical help. I have to just soldier on. Luckily I can WFH and this has made life much more manageable.

I would say through that;

everyone is different.

Some people work harder than others.

some people do things slower than others

some people are quite precious about child care and house work.

some people over parent and fuss a lot

Most SAHM I have met spend a lot of time organising things and doing extra curricular activities etc. I would rather channel that energy into paid employment but that is me.

It can be so overwhelming. From your post I sense you are drowning in a sea of random shit that accumulates in a house with children. I would suggest you start ruthlessly clearing stuff out. I can imagine with their ages, you are probably always afraid to throw things out because it can be passed down and that makes it even worse.
It dawned on me one day that the stuff in the house was making me anxious and taking up so much headspace with sorting, organinsing etc. I starting throwing stuff out and giving it away. There is an app here where you can give stuff away for free and I use it enthusiastically! Just today I got rid of an old table cloth and old plates within an hour. I sneak all the random tat the children get into a bag and give it away when it accumulates. They never notice....so liberating. Things have a place and I don't have to think about it now and it gives me the gift of time!

It is massively hard.

We both work from home and in the office, full time.

So we each do two days working at home and completely pick up the slack on those two days so the other can do the long days that are needed. This includes pick up and drop off, driving to soccer training, doing a load of washing and folding what is there, and prepping dinner. Then to make up for time list that person logs back on for two hours after dinner.

On the one day we are both in the city, I drop off, DH picks up from after school care, and I pick up a supermarket roast chicken on the way home.

We only cook meals that make good leftovers.

We have a fortnightly cleaner.

On the weekends we catch up on everything else.

Its still a shit fight.

Oh and I do carry of the mental load - about 70% I would say which is a constant source of irritation. Often it is due to the ingrained sexism from other parents. They NEVER add DH to the WhatsApp for Johnny’s birthday party, they NEVER text DH to see if he can also take Alice to soccer training. I’ve started sending short messages back “DH takes the kids every week. Please ask him”.

The UK is seriously behind when it comes to childcare. We have spent billions educating women to then encourage women to stay home if they have children. It makes zero sense.

Maternity leave of 12 months is a career killer. I think 6 months of leave is a good amount for the typical birth. Personally I was working after 10 weeks but from home and on an ad hoc basis. Obviously some need longer and there should be provision for that. I also think one parent of a disabled child should be allowed to be ‘retired’ from working at the fully vested rate.

I’ve stayed in North America because I earn enough after taxes to cover all my expenses that come with 3 children. I can’t afford the privilege of working in the UK.

But you can never replace a mother. You only ever have one.

This will come as a surprise to lesbian couples with children.

This is why it's impossible to have a good talk about this topic. People love throwing in curve balls as if that trumps all debate. No, it doesn't.

The level of anger and outrage from working mums on this thread and others similar shows to me that there's a nagging doubt deep inside. It seems odd to get heated up over someone else's views because they differ from yours so it must be something else at play.

One thing to also consider... When you are young(ish), you generally expect to be in good health, robust energy etc. Even for those who may not be in great health, youth (under 40) helps pull you through. As you grow older, things change. Energy levels dip, many of us are sandwiched between young children and ageing parents etc. I'm only saying this because I feel many of the posters who so fabulously combine full-time work with busy family lives (without nanny's or housekeepers) have health on their side. Things can change in an instant and not everyone has the same stamina. I could not even contemplate holding down a full-time job and looking after house/family and give the time and attention my child needs. Then there's ageing parents who need more help as time goes on. And a myriad of other responsibilities that I couldn't do if I were expected to be in paid work.

The poster is drowning. If she has a choice of staying home and spending time with her family, getting on top of household maintenance etc. then that should be encouraged. Plenty of time to return to work when all the children are in full-time education. It's just a different stage for her right now.

And let's not get so outraged by differing opinions. It's just silly and reflects quite poorly on those responders. We are all navigating life the best we can.

Sorry, but playing the heartstring-tugging “you only get one mum” isn’t a debate, it’s a Clinton’s Cards sentiment that needs shutting down pronto so people can get back to the debate. Additionally you don’t see that post droning on about only getting one dad.

Well said fluffy. Why are people getting so angry?

Take a few years out if you can afford it op might take the pressure off. You’ve only got one life. It’s not irrevocable you can just go when they are older. The way the job market is at the moment they will bite your hand off. Majority of friends who took 2-5 years off all now back in decent job / careers.

The poster that had twins at 48 has blown my mind. That’s my age JFC!!!

The poster is drowning. If she has a choice of staying home and spending time with her family, getting on top of household maintenance etc. then that should be encouraged. Plenty of time to return to work when all the children are in full-time education. It's just a different stage for her right now.
Does she have that choice? Does she want that? Why isn’t it OK to encourage, as lots of posters have, her to cut some of the activities, get her DH to do 50% mental load and 50% housework without her nagging/huffing/puffing? Because nagging another adult is another part of her mental load.

Who can say if there’s plenty of time for her to return to full time – we don’t know her age, career, pension status. We do know it’s difficult for women to return to the workforce after long breaks, that tech and jobs can move on and leave people behind, that qualifications can need renewing, that it’s harder to get a job when you’re out of work, that it’s harder to get a job when you’re older.

And maybe she likes her job and her kids and is seeking a balance, maybe she needs solutions, maybe she does want to stop work and have this validated, maybe she doesn’t want to feel alone. It’s not as simple (it rarely is) as “this is hard so quit your job”.

Re the "stuff" issue:

I'd really recommend just going hardcore on gifts.

Talk to friends and relatives about doing no-present pacts. Talk honestly to grandparents about the "stuff" problem and state clearly that you'd like them to stick to consumables and experiences. Do gift-free parties only and communicate politely but very clearly to guests about this (I have a standard template message that I use for party invites which you are welcome to use, if you like). Establish some transparent family rules about free gifts, gift shop crap and random bits of plastic, and stick to them.

I live in a small apartment and detest clutter, so made the decision to just be really firm and unembarrassed about this about ten years ago - it truly does make a difference.

There are Mumsnetters on here who will give you a hard time about this kind of stuff and make you feel like you are controlling or a killjoy. Ignore them. Put your mental health and that of your kids first. Your kids deserve a happy parent, not one who is frazzled and resentful because she spends so much of her time sorting through boxes of plastic tat and endlessly trying to tidy up.

But you have to communicate clearly with other people and be very honest with them.

If she has a choice of staying home and spending time with her family, getting on top of household maintenance etc. then that should be encouraged

Why? The poster didn't actually ask if she should quit her job. She asked how other families who work a lot, manage. But instead of that, she gets: you must quit work, you're farming out your children to strangers, they will be damaged, what a horrible selfish person who only cares about her fancy job. Seems that some SAHMs have a nagging doubt inside, if they need to push their lifestyle as the only right solution, eh?