That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

These threads always interest me as a lone parent. We get called "lazy" if we don't have jobs.

Very interesting information in both of these posts. I think we’d do well to ponder these points and try to figure out something that makes sense as a parent. Because…I can see the validity in the arguments on all sides. It’s a dilemma.

Why would I? I have an adorable child who is the light of my life. I have a number if interests I pursue and have time for too.

I do find it insulting when people who have the luxury of not having to earn money judge me for having to earn money to support my child, yes, and I’m quite happy to own that. I don’t think it’s thin skinned to point out that someone is talking sanctimonious, hypocritical and ill informed rubbish.

Do you have a problem with that?

But if we do have jobs we “farm out” or children. We can’t win.

I think it's incredible in 2023, women are still being told that they must be stay at home, that they must want to be with their children 24/7 and that their children will be somewhat damaged if they have parents that work and they are in childcare. That they shouldn't have had children if they wanted to work as well.

No one ever has these conversations with men. Most people have no idea how they will take to parenthood and for me it was the darkest time in my life. I was hospitalized with post natal depression and was told by many health professional going back to work would be good for me. We all experience motherhood differently and there is no right or wrong way. It works best for each individual but I resent being told that because I work full time, I must love my son less or be a worse mother for it.

For experience my mum stayed at home and went back full time when I was 10. I absolutely loved having the house to myself as a teenager and letting myself in from school. I'd have felt absolutely suffocated as a teenager with my mum there all the time and always felt proud when she went back to work and felt family life much improved when she did.

My cousin who's mum worked full time from when she was 3 months old both have an incredibly close relationship and she didn't suffer at all from being in childcare at a young age.

Yep.

It just interests me how some people think 2 parents working is impossible but a lone parent is expected to do it plus do all housework and childcare alone and if they don't work and claim benefits they are "lazy."

YANBU. It is not possible to be both a great mum and a great employee with young children. Possible exception is if you have a fabulous full time live in nanny plus a cleaner several times a week.

But, kids grow up fast and if you take a ‘career break’ then no matter how senior you were when you had kids, everyone will expect you to be grateful for a basic entry level admin job when you try to come back to work in your forties.

Ugh it’s all so depressing I don’t know what the answer is other than that employers need to find a way to let women return at the same level as they left the workplace at.

I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip.

Could you manage financially for a few years if one of you took a career break?

I find it interesting that someone said “kids just want to be with their parents”. Kids also want sweets for dinner and to play Fortnite for hours, even though it’s not what’s ultimately best. Both parents working and being able to provide their children more than the absolute basics will set them up for the rest of their life, which will be ~83 years. Being able to support them through uni and financially is really valuable in the age of inflation, crazy house prices and probably no state pension soon.

Both my parents worked and I’m glad they did. My mum was a good role model of a woman in STEM, and financial support meant I had no uni loans, which meant I got a good job and could save up for a deposit really easily without student debt. I know a lot of SAHMs say “my daughters can be what they want to be”, but when you’re modelling a female role of unpaid care work and demonstrating that your career takes a backseat to your husband’s, that message sort of falls flat - it’s like “do as I say, not as I do”.

It is not possible to be both a great mum and a great employee with young children. Possible exception is if you have a fabulous full time live in nanny plus a cleaner several times a week.

What a load of utter tosh. I was a bloody great mum when the DC were little. I was bloody good at my job too. Sweeping sexist statements like these serve women so badly.

Oh right. Best hope your next isn’t twins then. It well could be- not as rare as you think. Happened to me.

The odds are like 1 in 250. It is rare.

A actually think saying a woman can be a fabulous full time hands on mum and be a fantastic dedicated employee is sexist. Massively downgrades and makes inferior the role of mum and child care.

@Beezknees

It just interests me how some people think 2 parents working is impossible but a lone parent is expected to do it plus do all housework and childcare alone and if they don't work and claim benefits they are "lazy."

Tbh this whole thread makes me wonder if I have been living in a parallel universe or if someone wound the clock back to about 1954.

All these people struggling to raise kids in a nuclear family and urging everyone to pack their jobs in. Some of us just have to crack on.

I couldn’t care less how people run their families but being told I “farm out” my kid because I put food on her table has made me fucking murderous.

It is not possible to be both a great mum and a great employee with young children.

Do you also think men can't be both good fathers and good employees? If not, why?

I did have a chuckle at the poster who said if you dropped dead, work would replace you without a second thought. Widowers also move on far more quickly - it wouldn’t just be work replacing the wife!

Yet you say your husband was a “great dad”…..who didn’t see his kids for days on end? Hypocrisy strikes again. What was stopping him moving to a job in his field with shorter more flexible hours? Most professions don’t just have 1 job title at 1 company that you can. The mental gymnastics to tell off women yet praise men for the same thing!

If you quit your job and lived off the state I bet they'd have something to say too. Can't win it seems.

A actually think saying a woman can be a fabulous full time hands on mum and be a fantastic dedicated employee is sexist. Massively downgrades and makes inferior the role of mum and child care.

It really doesn't. All it does is say that different women have different talents and aptitudes. It acknowledges that there is not one single correct way to raise children and that this is with a mother always at home; it accepts that there are many ways of raising children that result in well adjusted, happy, functional adults.

It's 2023 and we're still having SAHMs needing to denigrate those of us who work... Why?

Completely incorrect.
chances of having identical twins is
1 in 250
Chances of having any type of twins is 1 in 30. Even higher if you are over 35, white or black skinned, or if you have been pregnant before, which you have.

@PurpleWisteria1

A actually think saying a woman can be a fabulous full time hands on mum and be a fantastic dedicated employee is sexist.

You what now?

I’m a dedicated single mum and a dedicated employee. I’ve been promoted three times in five years. Why should my ability to either do my job or parent my child be sexist?

I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip.

I actually asked mine this evening, inspired by this thread. That what would you choose, we move from our nice house to a modest flat, cancel family holidays and sorry, no basketball camp this year - but, but, next time yu go to a museum with your class, I can come with you! Oddly they voted for maintaining status quo. I guess this must mean the poor poppets are permamently damaged by being farmed out to strangers. They claim to be happy and to love me but surely that can't be.

OP, I have 4 kids. I have worked full time throughout and so has my DH. At one point, I had 3 kids under the age of 4. It has not been easy but it has been very much worth it. I value my kids, and my career. We have predominantly used nurseries and we didn't have any family nearby to help. We do have a weekly cleaner though.

You absolutely, 100%, HAVE to rationalise the out of school activities. They are what's making it so hard to manage your situation. I have read your replies that say that you can't or won't do this - that is your choice. But it is certainly what I would do before I cut working hours or considered leaving my job! Swimming lessons etc. REALLY won't matter in the long run, your careers and your current wellbeing really will.

I guess when you just feel strongly that it’s in the best interest of the child it’s hard to stay silent.
There are many different factors at play, but I have worked as a teacher in an area where it was common for both parents to work full time in high paying professional jobs. The parents of the children I taught often hired nannies. Sometimes the nanny would stay only 1 term. Sometimes a year or two. Many children were so insecure, missed their parents, got unnaturally excited about seeing their mum on Friday as they hadn’t seen her all week and she was actually picking them up from school for the first time that term. It was just sad and distressing to watch. Those kids would be adults now. I hope it was all worth it and they turned out ok.