That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

I sympathise OP. Must be very busy working and also raising three DCs including two under 5. You sound v tired and a bit resentful, so I hope you can get yourself on a better track. Not sure PPs who are telling you to start micromanaging what DH does and doesn’t do are being helpful, seems as if he does a lot.
a few suggestions: swimming is important but a 4 year old and 1 year old do not need swimming lessons at the moment so cut that out until next summer at least and then do it for the 4/5 year old only.
is there anything you can do to tweak your work hours to give yourself a bit more time for the housework/child responsibilities? If at all possible you need to reduce work hours a bit.
Tackle the house/mess/running to stand still feeling because this is getting you down and I’m not surprised. Could you have a full sort out as others have suggested, being brutal and getting everything in its place? After that you have to find time in your routine to put things back in their place, with everyone in the household doing what they can.
Cut more corners. Can you reduce washing? Does 8 year old need all their activities? Get help in - someone to clean/tidy/ sort washing or to entertain the children and clear up afterwards while you do something else.
Lastly, more days out/ afternoons out / picnics and park / walks / special movie nights or games nights in for family bonding or as a break from the relentless day to day chores.
Good Luck.

The thread title asks "AIBU that two working parents doesn't work?"

The OP has three DC, Three. It's not the same as having one or two.

It's no good coming on and saying "oh well I'm fine and don't I don't need to SAH, so why are you asking this - it makes me feel attacked!" when you only have one child! Ffs! Don't people read the OP?

The vast majority of people who know what it is to have three or more DC are rightly saying it's a real struggle trying to juggle two full-time jobs and three or more DC and this is why they have a SAHP, work-part time or some different flexi arrangement. That's not SAHMs attacking anyone! It's just being honest about the reality of life with three kids. I have four, but I remember the jump to three - the dynamic changes and you are outnumbered!

Thing is, it is really hard. We're not saying 1 parent can always stay at home. But what we can say is that we can see the negative effects of both parents working full time more often than not. I work as an OT in a paeds practice with kids from all walks of life, and I can also fairly quickly guess who'se moms are at home or at least a lot more involved, eg part timers/school hours. It is sad, because it isn't always possible but doesn't negate that we see this?
For example research shows it is beter to grow up with a mom and a dad. Kids in 2 parent households on average have higher grades, lower dropout rates, better behaviour, lower chance of teen pregnancies, lower chance of ending in povertu etc etc. SO research clearly shows this. Does it mean it is always possible ? no/ Same kids's dad or mom has sadly passed on. That's life. But it doesn't mean that research isn't clear

Yeah and my grandma smoked till the age of 97, wasn't sick a day in her life. Shall we encourage smoking now?
Reality is, the woman is the one giving birth and breastfeeding, how is it sexist to point out that logically she's the one to stay at home in the early years. Bilogically the child initially also has a stronger bond to the mom, because he knows her voice etc. I mean where will this equality end? Why don't you give birth and then go back to work after 3 days and your husband take mat leave for a year? Its just dumb to say that equality is the reasons mom stay at home. It's biological

Yes I absolutely feel this. You are not alone. I feel like I’m doing a below par job at pretty much everything. Last week was very stressful and I didn’t have chance to keep on top of the house in the weekdays. This meant that between us, myself and my husband spent 8 hours (I kid you not) getting on top of the house on Saturday. Then on Sunday I spent 2 hours doing my car as I’d been driving a dust bin around for weeks.

I try to remind myself that what we are trying to do is actually impossible. I’d argue that we are the first generation of women where it’s actually normal and expected that we work and have a family. I guess we have to financially ☹️. Even my mum was a stay at home mum while we were little. The home work and mental load hasn’t changed, only we are expected to also fit a job into the mix too. It’s no wonder we feel like we are failing!

Let’s be honest men haven’t really stepped and up and adapted in most households, it’s women who still carry most of everything. Don’t underestimate how tiring carrying the mental load is. I’d recommend a Facebook group called “bridging the gap” to get some ideas about this.

I don’t really have any advice other than to be really kind to yourself. Even if it might not look like it from the outside, we are all feeling like this in some way.

@Itsmyshadow

I saw you said

Dropping those gives huge guilt as if I was a SAHM we wouldn’t have the same issues.

I realise it's just words but I would reframe this sort of thought in your mind. If your DH was a SAHD you wouldn't have the same issues either.

You can only sustain a certain number of activities because you BOTH work not because you work.

@ThroughGraceAlone firstly, the smoking analogy is just low. Smoking causes cancer and affects non smokers. Working as a mother is tough but if done right there is no intrinsic harm. The analogy is rude - once again families with two working parents are labelled second best. It is this that irritates those of us who work. I respect SAHMs. Shame that respect is not returned; who is having the niggling doubts here? Surely it's the posters going after working women.

Secondly, I gather you are in the US. You cannot extrapolate to other countries in terms of the data. Lastly, you ignore the fact that committed same sex couples in stable relationships have equal or better outcomes compared to opposite sex couples.

I agree OP is in an unsustainable situation and needs to make changes. That doesn't mean it's like that for everyone.

Your comments are just fucking bizarre and you don’t seem to realise. Your husband is a great dad and has a great career but you can’t be a fabulous mum and a dedicated employee at the same time?
Its fine with your husband doesn’t get home to see his kids for days at a time but it’s sad when a mum only picks her kids up on Friday?

In the real world most working parents are not out from 7- 8/9pm. They pick their kids up between 5-6, they spend time with them every night, they make them dinner, they bath them, they put them to bed and they get up and see them again the next morning. And I say they because it is they, both parents are an active and engaged in their children’s lives.

Personally I think the idea of a sahm at the expense of the other parent having quality time with their child is selfish, dated and not beneficial to children. If both parents are on the scene they should both be raising their children.
No doubt you have some views on single parents but other that a pay cheque in the day to day that was actually the set up you had.

What does birth have to do with the early years? Women have 12 months maternity leave in the UK, they can also stack annual leave on top. Going back to work is irrelevant to breastfeeding as firstly most babies are not BF at 12 months and if they are it is perfectly possibly to BF in the morning and evening. I know many women who did that when they returned to work, it was not a problem at all.

It is beneficial to children here though. Having a strung out exhausted mum you don’t see much isn’t great is it? We can’t all live our lives to make strangers feel better or to uphold other peoples worthy feminist principles.

I have two children and me and husband both work full time. It's bloody hard. We kinda have a routine. Saturday I change all beds and stick them in wash, sun husband does quick clean of house. In the week afyer work or sometimes before I'll run around with the hoover.
As for art work. I keep it to one side for a week then chuck any rubbish I don't want. I only keep xmas mothers fathers day stuff easter etc. Rest in bin. Clothes, again of they don't fit, stick in a black bag and once full take it to the clothes bin. I used yo try and sell them but it was mote hassle than it was worth.
Kitchen gets a quick clean before work. Before bed, everything is either washed up or stuck on dishwasher ( trying to cut down due to costs). So kitchen is breakfast stuff washed and a quick once over.
They only have swimming Sunday. Both are autistic so they don't really like clubs so much
Eldest has tutoring once a week but we slot it on depending on what the other parent is doing . I think wft you have to accept that nothing will go yo plan all the time and your house won't be a show home

@Sissynova - "In the real world most working parents are not out from 7- 8/9pm. They pick their kids up between 5-6, they spend time with them every night, they make them dinner, they bath them, they put them to bed and they get up and see them again the next morning. And I say they because it is they, both parents are an active and engaged in their children’s lives."

That does not need to be "reality" though does it? It's not the law! Why are you so threatened about the idea of a SAHM?

Every family has its breaking point and it's up to them. None if your business. Calling people 'selfish' to stay home to focus on their kids is beyond ridiculous. Come on. What's it to you? And why are you presuming to speak on behalf of their husbands ffs? Bizarre. Let them decide with their wives how they want to manage THEIR family life. This is all sounding deranged.

I know men like that too - my OH is one of them! I was challenging this posters view that women needed to change their career expectations or not have children, with no mention of men needing to do the same thing.

I am more exhausted by my day with the kids than my working days 😄

Why don't you give birth and then go back to work after 3 days

people here are talking about staying home with 9-10yo or even teenagers. Pretty sure most mums have healed from birth by that time and no longer breastfeed.

Word! All this talk of seeing them grow up and making memories and stuff when actually the daily mothering of children is a drudge. I’m currently on maternity leave and it’s just Groundhog Day of feed the baby, breakfast for everyone, school run, put the baby down for a nap and spend that time clearing up breakfast stuff (that fucking Ikea Antilop high chair tray!), prepping snack and lunch and sticking a wash on or putting laundry away or unpacking a food shop, then baby up and to a class or swings for barely any time at all because back for lunch then nap then clearing up lunch then up for snack and clearing up snack and on and on and on. Wiping bibs and hanging them up to dry over and over again. He’s a very jolly baby but it’s not magical. It’s labour. I respect SAHMs for doing the drudge day after day but I don’t respect this idea that SAHMs are on some higher plane of ideal motherhood that’s all magic, while working mothers make zero memories with their children.

I’m currently reading Momfluenced and it’s really good on examining the “precious memories” aspect of motherhood and how a lot of it is for parents, not children, who are the centre of their own lives and have a warped sense of time: DD still talks about the “amazing summer” she spent at someone’s house “going for the walk every day and always ice creams and all summer we did this and that”. It was one weekend!

To bring this back to the OP, I’m one of three kids and we didn’t do swimming til the youngest was five. Then it was intensive lessons and a once a week family swim when we were five, seven and nine. Before that it was survival. Activities didn’t really kick in till secondary school when we could walk ourselves to and from choir/drama/football/whatever. Weekends were the car wash, the big shop, B&Q, family life: children fitting in with what the family needed, not parents working around the kids’ schedule. Library was once a fortnight.

Attaching a page from Momfluenced about giving into the mess. When even Marie Kondo admits she’s given up on tidiness with three kids, what hope the rest of us?

But women have 12 months maternity leave. It isn’t biologically necessary for women to stay at home for years simply because they gave birth and some may breastfeed.

@bussteward - my mum worked full time.

For a couple of years, we lived abroad because my dad got a transfer there. I asked her recently what job she did there as I realised that I didn't remember. She said "oh for work visa reasons, I was a SAHM for those years" - I had completely forgotten that/it just didn't make any impact on me..

That will depend on the individual parent.

I’d be absolutely miserable as a SAHM which wouldn’t benefit the child at all.

We're specifically talking about early years here.

That's life. But it doesn't mean that research isn't clear

indeed. There is abundant evidence that children in lower income households do less well than their peers on a range of developmental outcomes, including in health and education. So therefore it is not in my DC's interest that I quit my job and cut family income by 2/3. I am not convinced being able to volunteer for school bake sale quite makes up for it.

@SouthLondonMum22 this! Different people have different needs and abilities. What offends me is this sneering contempt from people who say that if we can't be SAHMs and need to work.for our own wellbeing, we are second rate mums who shouldn't have children at all and oh, we are probably crap at our jobs too. I wouldn't dream of saying SAHMs lack ambition, are lazy etc. so why the vitriol? It's horses for courses and we all want to raise good and decent young people, whether or not we work.

We're specifically talking about early years here.

No we are not, you specifically mentioned early years in one sentence, but then also talked about working school hours, so can't be that early years. UK has 12 months of maternity leave, after that I do not see that many things only mum can do.

@pointythings

What offends me is this sneering contempt from people who say that if we can't be SAHMs and need to work.for our own wellbeing, we are second rate mums who shouldn't have children at all and oh, we are probably crap at our jobs too. I wouldn't dream of saying SAHMs lack ambition, are lazy etc. so why the vitriol? It's horses for courses and we all want to raise good and decent young people, whether or not we work.

Thank you. The level of spite and judgement on this thread directed at working mums has chilled me and I’m a veteran of these boards.

Genuinely, frighteningly nasty. And people throwing around some really offensive comments about “farming out” and then not having the balls to resurface and explain themselves wheb called on it.

Is the research clear? Because it also shows that girls with working mothers are not only more likely to be working mothers themselves but they are also more likely to have senior roles and higher salaries than girls who have SAHM’s as children.

It also shows that boys of working mothers are more likely to grow up to do things around the house such as cleaning.

All positives to me.