That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

While those who advocate keeping hold of your career throughout raising children have very good points especially financial security, personal autonomy, career fulfillment, and avoiding being unable to find anything after an absence from the workforce, as a parent you’re going to be losing out on something to a degree because you can’t be in two places at once and trying to hold on to both part time often leads to dissatisfaction and frustration with both work and parenthood. Ultimately, I knew I’d rather lose out a bit or a lot on my career than lose out on spending time with my child and rushing and unable to fully have what I wanted more than a career. It’s difficult, I think I’d do full time parenting for a few years if I were you, but you have t decide for yourself. Lots of good points on this thread. It’s a dilemma for sure that’s not easily solved.

On similar threads, mother's income is always treated as optional, for luxuries, not really necessary. I don't get it, surely all women are not just working for nominal pin-money nowadays? Family income is a key determinant of healthy child development, affecting them also later in their lives as adults. And having 2 careers is much safer in case of job loss, illness, death or if the other parent just decides that they do not wish to contribute to this family any more.

You are not being unreasonable. Ive been through this thought process myself- worked a good job trying to juggle kids, the house, life and my job. I was doing a crap job all around and very miserable. I couldn't carry on. So I've handed in my notice. I, personally, couldn't have it all- something had to give- and for me, that was my career.

I hate the situation of working 4 days, being paid for 4, but doing 5 days' work - this should be illegal, but it can be hard to stop it happening! I've been there, when my DCs were much younger - I cut my (paid) hours but ended up working nearly as much as previously, except not getting paid for it, more fool me. I'm now retired, and had contemplated at one point easing myself into retirement by cutting back to 3 or 4 days, until I realised nobody would do my job on the other days, so I chose not to go down that route. I do know people who work full-time, where they have condensed their FT hours into 4 long days and that's the only way I think you can win at this game. not everyone can make this work either, of course.
Sorry I have no real answers, OP, but I'm sure you're doing your best.

@SouthLondonMum22

But you aren't allowed to find maternity leave or being a SAHM boring or dreary of course. 🙄

God no that would be to devalue the role of mother as caregiver and that is verboten. It’s only careers that are dreary don’t you know?

There truly are no words for the sexism and gross generalisation here. My children are older I assumed this sort of shit had died out in the intervening 15 years.

I am just not short termist, I think of pension, long term security for all of us.

OP can you/ DH find jobs with flexibility? That’s how we cope with both being FT. Also I really don’t carry all the mental load, DH deals with all of the school stuff. If you don’t do it then they pick it up ime.

I sympathise and am in the same boat. We both work full time hours but me in four days and him at evenings. The house is never tidy, the washing never completely done… but it’s safe and the important bits are clean. I just try to let go of the cleaning expectations a bit. My children don’t care and it’s their childhood.

A lot of people here talk about giving up work like it’s optional. For many of us it isn’t. We’re not choosing “career”, we’re working to pay our bills. I think it’ll be easier when my 2nd daughter starts funded pre-school. It might free up some money for a cleaner, or allow us some time to do more regular declutters.

My husband and I work shift work in 2 very different industries but both are open and running 24/7 365 days a year. We work around each other. We try and keep 1 or 2 days a week off, one during the week and 1 weekend day. This has helped massively with the children, no nursery fees. I think a lot of us have got try and leave the 9-5 work behind just for ease and flexibility. I’m going back to studying once my youngest is settled in school. Now is the time. Easier said than done of course.

I recommend this book so much that I’m sure people think I’m getting some kind of kickback - but I’m not! It’s called Fair Play by Eve Rodsky. Read it, then sit down with your husband and have an honest conversation about how you can work together better to manage the house. This includes the metal load. It’s got some really good suggestions on splitting it up more fairly. It’s absolutely changed my marriage. It took a lot of hard conversations and we need to revisit it every now and then, it’s not the be all and end all but it gives you some very useful tools. Try read a summary online if you don’t have time to read the whole book right away. Think of it like a challenging work project - would you just go on and on, year after year, without the support you need? Or would you have a chat with your manager and colleagues to figure out a more effective way forward? With better support? This is the way it needs to be approached. But you can’t expect results without a bit of resistance and teething pains - stick it out, it’ll be worth it.
and yes kids absolutely need to be tidying up after themselves, stacking the dishwasher, putting away their own clothes and toys. Even the four year old can have a few responsibilities. And your eight year old can do a lot more than you think, he will relish the extra responsibility and faith you put in him. Good luck!

You can get 'after school' nannies or nannies that work part time - take a look at Koru Kids as an example - they have good marketing but there are also other similar services elsewhere

OP, first it sounds like you (and I mean you, DH and DC on age-appropriate level) need a good decluttering. Pack away most of kids toys and rotate. Find a place for everything and never put things down, put them away.
Then simplify. Nursery drawings? Take a photo if you must, but then bin. Party bag junk? Bin. Magazines? Cancel subscriptions, read online.
DH needs to take either school or nursery - you will unsubscribe from one of the mailing lists and give his number as the primary one. Make it clear that you will not read any emails or messagesm he will have to.
Kids's activities - prioritise. The 4yo really doesn't need organised activities and 1yo certainly not.

It's hard work for sure but it's possible to manage.

Out of interest, do men need to ‘stop having it all’ too? Or is it just women? Should the men who choose their ‘fancy careers’ over being with their baby (as they have done since fancy careers existed) not have bothered having the baby?

Stop taking all the mental load
Get cleaner in more often
Try your best every day but at the end of the day accept that you have done all you can for that day and let it go
It does get easier as they get older
3 DC is a lot

I think it doesn't work now. But in 4 years time, it'll be totally fine (unless like me you decide to have another).

And I definitely raised my DC
Disgraceful when people trot out all that dated sexist crap

@ladyvivienne your post is grossly ignorant and insulting to me.

I’m a lone parent who has no choice but to work full time. There is literally no one else who can earn the money my 12 year old daughter needs. How dare you say I “farm her out?” Who the hell are you to judge me for doing what I need to do to support her?

My daughter has asthma and has been hospitalised multiple times a year since she was a toddler because of this. Every year I spend several nights in a row with her, in hospital supporting her, holding her hand, helping keep her spirits up while she is pumped full of steroids and nebulised. I spend weeks not getting a good nights sleep because she keeps me awake coughing. I do this. Not a childminder or a nanny. Because no matter who looks after her while I work I am her mother and I am the person on whom she depends.

I’m the person who helps her with her homework and who counsels her when she has problems with her friends or struggles with school. I’m the person who feeds her and buys her clothes and arranges her play dates and takes her on holidays and washes and irons her school uniform and plays games with her.

But I also go out to work (and work from home when I can) to provide her the best in life and yes I use childminders because without them I couldn’t work. Because I am her mother and I need to support her.

So please take the filth about “farming out” out of your mouth.

OP I relate, I have 3.5 year old twins and work 4 (long, busy!) days and until their 30 free hours kicked in I had them on my days off; nothing got done, it was just the bare minimum all the time. I was constantly exhausted.

The change I made was when the 30 hours kicked in we could afford an extra day at nursery and I put them in on my non-working day. To say it’s changed my life isn’t an understatement! I spend half the day doing the big shop, batch cooking, tidying; I have time for the extra jobs too like sorting the kids clothes to get rid of stuff too small, get a load of things on Vinted etc etc - I have even gotten in to the gym again and spend an hour there. I go and pick them up early with DH and we all go for a tea-time family swim together before going home for bedtime.

Once your youngest gets those extra hours or when middle child goes to school and releases some £ maybe, I would 100% recommend it. Without sounding like a twat I actually think I’m a better mum to my kids for it.

Yeah, I fully agree with the title. There's is just a lot going into running a home and family. And I think the first few years are so crucial for a kid to be able to rest and play and not be rushed out of bed to go to school every single day.
Apart from all the practical like you mentioned, (laundry cooking cleaning bla bla) is also the emotional side of being available, not just for your kids, but for your husband /wife.
Because in reality job and house takes precedence over a spouse. We usually cancel (or are just plain too tired) for check in chats, movie nights, intimacy etc with our spouses after everything else is done.
I read once when I was younger that the best gift a parent can give their children is to love their other parent.
And we just don't have the time to pour into full time work, kids, homes and our marriages.

And I just roll my eyes at 'husband needs to do more'.
It doesn't take away the fact that it's too much. There needs to be time to relax and just be and there never is with 2 full time parents.
Imhhhhho when kids are young, work very reduced hours or none at all. That would be the ideal. Is the stress worth the financial gain? Is the developmental early crucial years that your kids miss out on worth the holiday in tenerife.
Is the break down of the marriage worth a career?
And heck I'm not discounting that economic times are hard and someone people won't survive on one (low) income.
I'm just saying practically and theoretically I don't believe we can pour into our households, kids and spouses like we should with 2 working parents. It's not possible. Something is always on the back burner.
Am I saying its economically easy for 1 parent to stay home? No, but it sure as hell would work better for family life. Oh how I wish average salaries were still big enough to support a family. Sadly it isn't.

I have come to the conclusion that the only way two parents can work in high pressures roles is if they have family support!

YANBU, I found it very difficult and we only had 2. The only thing I can say is it does get easier, but it’s hell
when you’re going through it. Tbh I don’t think I would do it again unless I wasn’t working, it’s just too stressful.

Change your definition of what's a success and failure. You're keeping 3 kids alive and holding down a career - quodos to you, that's a success! You do enough housework to keep it sanity - good job! You cook mostly - well done! You're succeeding not failing. If anyone else doesn't see it, that's their hang up, not yours. So your standards have had to drop and you have lost your me-time but it's not forever. It gets easier as they get older. Working mum of 4. Youngest 1yr. Brainless spaniel. My house becomes a bit of a pit but we're pretty good at 'panic cleaning' when we have visitors - that'll have to do for now

Out of interest, do men need to ‘stop having it all’ too? Or is it just women? Should the men who choose their ‘fancy careers’ over being with their baby (as they have done since fancy careers existed) not have bothered having the baby?
I remember a male friend of ours coming over after they had a little boy. Before his son: go- getter out to take over the world, afterwards we were laughing at how he literally tried to do as few hours as possible so he could get home to his family. My db was similar- after having kids he worked hard to find a work life balance and still try to have a decent career but he said he gave up trying to get higher because he said in the end his mind was more devoted to getting home to his wife and children. I think you’ll find there’s a lot of men who have done a full about turn on wanting to have it all

I managed shifts when husband is not working. Tired, not much social life and I love going out with the family anyway. This is how we do it. I honestly do not care what people think how much social life we have. It is up to us to do what we can do when we can do it. Budget, free time, car allowances, etc

I deliberately looked to compressed hours rather than reduced hours as all the women at my work who worked “part time” still seemed to have a full time work load.

I don’t understand threads where posters just deduct the child care from one parent’s wage and say “what’s the point in me working for X amount”. Why not deduct it from the household income or the other parent’s wage? If the other parent was getting a pay rise worth (say) £5k after tax, would that seem like nothing? My friend did a vocational degree where work experience had to start within a couple of years of graduating to keep it updated. She didn’t (DCs were born during her degree) and now can only get “assistant” positions in related roles. She’s divorced and her twat of an ex has zero appreciation of the compromises she made - finances are tough and being a massive arse he resents giving her (the DCs) “his money” in maintenance.

So because someone has a different point of view, you’re “insulted”. Really? Are you that thin skinned?