That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

I have no desire to martyr myself for the sake of a dreary career and to look like I’m financially contributing while running myself into the ground. I made it very clear to my now husband on our third date that I wanted to be a housewife and mother. It didn’t frighten him off and here we are ten years later with a loving marriage, a truly loved and wanted child and I work hard in the house homeschooling and taking care of my family.

That’s nice for you but some of us actually enjoy our careers,

I hate this narrative on here and elsewhere that mothers who work are just pretending to enjoy their careers, like we are just play acting. Some of us a) like working and b) have to work.

No, it doesn't work. With two or three younger kids, you need at least one person to be on somewhat reduced hours, and probably somewhat flexible as well.

Or, you need to outsource things besides childcare, but that requires more earnings which at some point won't pencil out. Plus you begin to wonder, what's the point?

DH and I both work full time and have 2 DC, 5 and 9z. DH works shifts so either does days or nights. I work Monday- Friday, 9-5. When DH is on nights he does school run and most pick ups, we have a CM for 1 pickup a week and my mum does another day. House gets cleaned top to bottom most Saturdays but if we've got things planned on a weekend then I'll do more in the week or just leave it to the following week. I Hoover every other day regardless and always clean kitchen, make beds etc daily. Kids activities are minimal, just football on a Sunday morning and swimming one night a week. It's tough and imagine a 3rd child would push me over the edge but I've lowered my standards around the house just accept this is life with young children. We just muddle through really, I can't give what I used to at work for now but I've paid my dues and it is getting easier at the kids grow. I know I'll get back to who I was eventually.

But you aren't allowed to find maternity leave or being a SAHM boring or dreary of course. 🙄

We're all winging it, don't be hard on yourself. It's not easy! My house it not tidy all the time. We have a mountain of crap but once a week I make them take it up to their room but they just stuff it in boxes. I constantly have piles of washing around the house. It's never ending. Some days it's tidy for a few hours but it's relentless. I often spend my day off cleaning and it stays tidy until tea time. I do sort out every now and again but that's a full day lol. Sounds like you've got a lot going on. X

We both work in big jobs & have two young kids. I have a cleaner, a nanny and very low domestic standards. Couldn't do it without one of those three things!

If your day off in the week is taken up with swimming lessons then that is the obvious thing to drop. 4 and 1 year old do not need swimming lessons. You can kick that can down the road for at least a few years, and just go swimming sometimes as a family/on holiday.

You have to let some things go, work or activities and accept that you can’t be on top of everything, do everything; prioritise and let go of you can’t do.

I wouldn’t quick my job though in the current market.

I found working 5 days a week, private school where they do all activities on it, no activities during the week and one at the weekend plus a cleaner 4 hours two days a week and a lady who irons weekly is the only way. It is expensive? It’s crazy. But I am rewarded by my job, I am doing a career, I am saving a pension and my kids go to an excellent school, plus I would be super frustrated in being a SAHM and wasting all the schooling I went through (master, phd) and my managerial capabilities. I am a better manager than a better mum, so I give the kids love and the rest I leave it to people who are professionals. Also I cook every week the same menu! Other families I know who chose state schools, have nannies who drive kids to activities, tutors to bridge the academic gap and same amount of cleaning/ironing help.
no one can do it all, it depends on your preference of working vs staying at home and how much you can afford

yes our salaries do allow our children nice holidays and for them to have everything material that they need. But I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip.

Apparently research shows what children want most is to spend time with their parents. I'm not meaning to guilt trip you - everyone needs to do what's best for their family. For some that means work more and afford more things. For us it means I work PT and spend a lot of time with DC but we don't have a fancy house or fancy holidays. (SIL for example works FT, they have a much bigger house but she sees her DC a lot less than I do mine). I have a friend who is very very close to her teenage DC - she says she thinks it's because she invested in the relationship with them when they were little and it's now paying off. That's what I'm aiming for - PT now, lots of time with DC (and live in a more basic way in a flat); increase my hours in a few years....

also: lowering your standards as per PP is definitely great advice. I read somewhere 'cleaning your house while the kids are growing is like shovelling snow when it's still snowing' - couldn't agree more!

Following as this is so similar to our situation

A lot of good ideas here, especially in relation to clubs!

What’s your routine like? I found that until I established a routine for myself, I was drowning. I had to sit down and plan out the entire day from wake up to bedtime (mine, not the kids!) before I could get myself together.
I stuck to the routine for a while, and I mean religiously, then started to relax off a bit and managed to keep on top of stuff in a more relaxed kind of way.
My kids do some short days and some long days at school/nursery, and a couple of clubs per week. I planned each day. It was hard and boring and I had to force myself to stick to it, the first weeks were miserable but it really has helped me find little slots of time throughout the day that work best for me.

There is lots of good advice and hacks on the lone parent webpage.
It's a balance between accepting that when WFH the house will be messy and just relaxing into the chaos. I am not good at this. I find myself getting pissed at my job for taking my time when in fact it should be working of course. I am less resentful when I go in.
I don't have the luxury of cleaners because I can't afford it and it is not easy but I have a policy of do it straight away and stay on top of it with cleaning. I clean the toilet after I clean my teeth , clean the bath and shower after using. That way you can stay afloat. My child doesn't see her father so I don't get a break. I'm not being funny but honestly have a look at the lone parent chat because there are threads there on how to make it work.

@Yellowlegobrick your cooking sounds amazing. Can you elaborate a bit on what you cook and how you cook four meals at the same time? I'm applauding your efficiency 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

take a weekend to have a massive clear out & then just try and maintain the house stuff. Make a weekly plan for chores & cut back the kid’s activities

Your jobs sound similar to ours, and yes our salaries do allow our children nice holidays and for them to have everything material that they need. But I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip

I do think that children, on the whole, would prefer time with their parents over nice holidays and material things. Although it might not feel like it at the time, when they want all the latest things! The problem is, these days, that some families need both parents to work just to get the basics paid for. But sometimes both parents work to afford a bigger house, big holidays, all the latest tech etc. Of course, sometimes both work because neither wants to sacrifice a career, or they love their job. They may want to do this, but the drawback is less time with the children, and less time to sort the house/admin/activities etc.

Each family must decide what is best for them, and how much income they need to cover the costs of the things they need/want. And if it's worth the sacrifices they must make to do this. It is difficult, and there is a lot of pressure these days for both parents to work. No-one gets to have it all, unfortunately. Something, in most cases, has to give.

Having three kids is very different to having one kid! Was everything hunky dory when you decided to have the second, and the third? If you’re struggling to cope can you afford to give up work or are you reliant on two incomes now?

What’s your point? She didn’t say she is surprised, she said it’s hard. Things can be both hard and still the right decision and foresight doesn’t mean we don’t deserve support or advice

I feel your pain entirely. I have, what would traditionally be called a high powered job, work full time and there’s no option to reduce hours. The saving grace is that I work from home probably 70% of the time since covid. My husband also works FT & we have 2 children, aged 3 and 1. I struggle with all the things you describe and our set up is similar to yours - equal parenting between DH and I, but I shoulder the mental load.

Some days I am totally overwhelmed and feel like I could cry at how I’m ‘failing’ in one area. Other days, I feel more on top of things and much better able to cope. On those days, I usually get up an hour before the children, get myself ready & then empty dishwasher, and hang out washing I’d put in the machine the night before (or put in the drier if weather is bad), and then put another load on. This system helps me stay on top of the laundry although putting it away is a nightmare - I usually try & do the children’s’ clothes whilst they’re in the bath with DH watching them.

I always pack nursery bags the night before. When I notice DC is getting too big for an item of clothing I put it in a bag in the utility once they take it off at bedtime. When the bag is full, I wash it & take it to the charity shop. Similarly, if it’s damaged, I either bag it for recycling or bin it. I used to be sentimental about holding onto things in case of another baby or to pass to a friend but I can’t bear clutter and this system helps me feel more in control & therefore calm.

We don’t have a playroom but have a storage system for toys & there’s a place for everything. DH and I tidy away every evening whilst the other one cooks. DH and I have a shared calendar so that we know who is doing pick up/drop offs, if there’s an evening one of us will be back from work late etc.

Like you, batch cook and meal plan - usually in the evenings or at weekends, get the occasional recipe box too to save time.

Most evenings I don’t sit down and relax, I’m always doing something (online food shop / shopping for birthday presents / organising family calendar etc.) and whilst it’s exhausting, being organised stops me from getting overwhelmed, so it’s actually beneficial for me.

Having said all the above, we don’t have after school activities yet and that’s a whole other level of organisation.

I think overall, it’s extremely hard, and you are definitely not alone. I have in some ways accepted this is how it’s going to be for a few years, and I’m hoping things will get easier as they get older (not likely I’m sure, but can live in denial for now!)

What’s your point? She didn’t say she is surprised, she said it’s hard. Things can be both hard and still the right decision and foresight doesn’t mean we don’t deserve support or advice

Thank you everyone. Your responses have been really helpful and also reassuring that I am not alone!

I already feel more positive about how to make it all more manageable.

Older kids absolutely do need to help more. No reason why they can’t sort the clothes into piles when I’ve taken them off the line and put their own clothes away for example.

I need to have a ruthless decluttering session as they don’t even know they have half the toys they own, and this in turn will help the kids tidy up as it won’t require a specialist skill cram everything into a storage cube a certain way.

Not sure what to do about the clubs. I’d have DC1 going only on weekends but there seems to be an expectation from the sports clubs that children train midweek as well. Dropping those gives huge guilt as if I was a SAHM we wouldn’t have the same issues. Does such thing exist as a nanny / home help that only works a few hours in an evening?

i’m definitely sticking at 4 days working once all DCs are at school. I reckon I only need a days worth of (uninterrupted) hours to keep fully on top of everything.

If you’re doing your FT job why aren’t you being paid FT?
I’ve just returned from Mat leave and doing FT over 4 days but my pay hasn’t changed so sounds a little unfair. I do slightly longer days or fit in a bit extra wfh where I can.

Sorry I know that wasn’t the point of the post but if your work load hasn’t been reduced with your days I’d ask for it to be. Might make you feel you’re struggling less in one aspect.

You chose to have 3 children and they’re all
pretty young. Of course it will be hard.

Exactly.

I heard a researcher being interviewed on R4 a while back who had found that mothers now who are in FT work spend the same amount of time on childcare as SAHMs did in the 1970s.

I found this an incredibly sobering thought. Even taking into account that it was much more accepted in the 70s for children to play out unsupervised, I think there are all sorts of things that women now have to sacrifice in order to make the sums add up. Including their own wellbeing, in many cases.