AIBU to think I should have been able to get help with behaviour of DS(6) before getting to crisis point?

[Sink23]

My DS is 6 and is currently in year 2.

I’ll preface the below (which sounds terrible on re-reading but is all true) by saying or DS is sometimes a very loving and kind boy, usually when he’s getting 100% of our attention immediately and also getting to do exactly what he wants when he wants. We absolutely adore DS and sometimes think we’ve caused this by spoiling him too much when he was younger (he’s an only child and only attended nursery at age 3 for a few months before Covid hit) - with both physical things and our full attention.

His behaviour can be absolutely atrocious at home. He still has frequent temper tantrums and not a single “technique” we’ve tried to deal with these has helped at all, he will scream for hours if we leave him to it and likely become a danger to himself, us or really damage our house/things so we sometimes have no choice but to restrain him (he’ll then try to but us, but usually calms down in 10 minutes or so if we stay silent and effectively hold his arms and legs). He’s a very petit 6 year old but he is getting bigger so I’m worried he’s not learning his owns ways of dealing with these emotions because all of our friends’ kids outgrew tantrums years ago.

He refuses point blank to follow our instructions whether this is related to either “doing” or “stopping” something and if he’s cross he regularly shout in our face (just noise, not words) and also frequently tells us how much he hates us. He seems to have learnt that this gets a reaction from me/DH but we do our best to not show it.

Whilst we’re not perfect, our family is totally normal and I think DS has a “nice” life. DH isn’t DS’ dad but has been in his life since he was 1, bio-dad has never been part of DS’ life and there’s no siblings. DS has plenty of clubs, attention from us and does not have a high amount of tech time (he sometimes plays some games on the computer, usually Minecraft or the games from school, but we decided against allowing him the mindless play on a tablet because it had an immediately negative effect on his behaviour during Covid and he’s never really asked for it since). We have tried so many different ways of dealing with this but nothing has worked and we’re at our wits end.

In school, he’s an absolute middle of the pack child. In reception he was able to attend through lockdown as we were key workers. In reception/year 1 it was always brought up that he struggled to pay attention/follow instructions but the school weren’t particularly concerned by this. However, now he’s in year 2 a few of the more challenging behaviours are also showing in school - as well as not paying attention, he’s answering teachers back and starting to say no to them. Obviously now this is a massive issue to the school and I’m constantly being dragged in to discuss this with various people.

We asked for help via our Council’s families service a few years ago but were told that we weren’t disadvantaged so didn’t qualify, but when we asked for help we could pay for none was offered. We also asked for help from the school last year (hoping they’d be able to signpost, rather than necessarily help) but they pretty much said there can’t be any issue at home because DS is fine at school, and DS was probably just in his “safe space”.

AIBU to think that had there been any help available when I asked for it, it would have been possible to “nip this is the bud” rather than the resultant situation where it’s now a huge problem?

Any genuine suggestions/help/experiences are absolutely appreciated here. Please no bashing me and assuming that we’re bad parents. We’ve definitely done things wrong on occasions, but we’re not awful people or trying to excuse the behaviour. We asked for help when it became obvious what we were doing was t working and hit brick walls - we really have tried and it’s a constant worry that our DS is the “naughty child”.

Thank you.

I don't know if it has already been suggested on this thread but please do try Solihull Approach parenting online course Understanding your Child. I have recently done this course and it has made me have a look at how I can parent differently with all the difficult times we have at home with my youngest two DC.

I would try reading the explosive child book. I think this would be good in your situation

My DD14 was very explosive at home, great in school. Primary school thought she was fine. Year 7 new school, within two weeks said I should get her assessment done. Turns out she was masking and had ADHD and ASD.

Get him assessed. DD is on ADHD medication for school days, massive help for her, she was relieved to understand what was going on.

I agree with this- we have never had any issues with school/gp etc accepting private diagnosis. In some areas the LA recommends private diagnosis because the nhs waiting lists are so long.

Stop blaming yourself. Giving small children your attention isn’t spoiling them. It makes them feel safe and loved.

If school aren’t helping (although I would push for this), try your GP. Don’t let them fob you off.

Good luck.

The problem is that in some areas, the GP can’t refer without support from the school. It wasn’t until we got a teacher who recognised there was an issue and carried out observations on our son that we were able to get him referred. Up until then, we were constantly fobbed off with teachers saying that they would speak with the SENCO, but then we would hear nothing further.

We don’t have infinite funds, we’d have to make cuts to pay for anything private which we would absolutely do but no idea where to go as everyone online just seems to have different opinions and we’re worried about paying for the wrong thing or someone unscrupulous-

@Sink23 if you are in the north of England I can give you some recommendations for places.

This is the first comment that has peed me off.

You’re saying matter of fact we’ve not been rigid and given discipline and we’re surprised at behaviour.

It’s the total opposite - we’ve been rigid following the same recommended approaches (since any of this first started age 3) usually for 6 months before switching to the next recommended approach when it’s clearly not working.

We’re past the point of being surprised it’s not working, we’ve doubted ourselves massively throughout.

I’m guessing you either have absolutely no experience of how crushing mentally dealing with something like this is and how being turned away from multiple avenues (even when simply enquiring about what we should actually be looking at to pay for privately) is when you’re constantly looked down on and assumed to just be terrible parents.

“Politely insisting” gets you nowhere when the other side “politely insist” back that everything is fine and they won’t take anything further.

I know no one in real life having similar, we weren’t allowed to join a local group because we actually work and they wouldn’t even provide a simple leaflet, educational and medical institutions won’t act until it’s a massive problem outside of the home (which it is now, which is finally why it’s being taken seriously).

Your response pretty much sums up the “it’s your fault and it’s easy to get help” attitude people have that makes everything feel so difficult because we have been trying to get advice for ages unsuccessfully.

I know it's been mentioned a few times but as you've tried so much I would say it's worth reading up about PDA and low demand parenting, also about the language you can use to try and lower anxiety

If your son's behaviour is caused by ASD anxiety or possibly PDA then being stricter and stricter will just cause meltdowns.

I think the PDA method of lowering demands is probably useful for any child in crisis

Also third or fourth the Ross Greene book the explosive child and his collaborative problem solving method

There are Facebook support groups for PDA and explosive child (plan B) - worth looking at them just to see if your child's behaviour resonates (pretty certain it will).

I think from your description that this is very unlikely to be your parenting. Even children with no boundaries at home usually begin to grow out of behaviour like biting before they reach 6 as school discipline and boundaries affect their behaviour. Additionally if the problem was with your parenting school would likely have seen a lot of the poor behaviour early on, with it reducing as he got older rather than the other way round.

My youngest has adhd and some of your description fits that really closely. I’d love to recommend you read a book called adhd is my superpower. It’s written for a child (although I chose not to share it with my son until we had a diagnosis) and is a series of descriptions of children with adhd. My suspicion is that as you read you’ll be “oh that’s ds, that’s ds too, that’s ds as well etc”.

Once you’re sure in your own mind what is causing the behaviour there is a lot of support on the internet to help which you can put in place before diagnosis.

Clearly you've taken offence. Firstly you are very wrong. I speak from more experience than many SN posters will ever endure. I was fobbed and and told by school that he was fine. School tried to stop the nhs AS diagnosis. School reported me to SS. I've had my fair share. I had such an awful experience. I'm imploring you to chase and chase, email and phone, complain and phone again. Insist referrals are done. If GP refuses, take it to the Practice Manager. If school refuses, take it to Head, then make an official complaint to the parent governors. You need to wise up and learn how to play the system.

Other posters have says similar to me. Ollifer told you to "Follow through with boundaries and consequences." But you didn't like how I phrased it?

I wonder if he takes it out on you because he knows he can - you said you spoilt him in terms of attention - not ever saying no to an activity he wanted to do and also not making him do an activity he didn't. Do you think deep down you babied him? Which has given him a sense of power in your home? My 6 year olds behaviour definitely changed around that age - growing independence at school and with friends - more articulate and confident. Greater sense of self. She isn't physical but verbally she can be very strong willed and rude. Thing is at his age it's how to break him out of that ingrained behaviour and personality he has now?

@Oblomov23 If he has pda then all the following through with boundaries won’t make the slightest positive difference, and will make a big negative difference over time.

@Sink23 I hear you- from what you’ve said you aren’t doing anything wrong, you are trying and trying again to do the right thing for your child and being met by a system that is so stressed it’s unworkable, and professionals who don’t have enough knowledge and rely on the ‘bad parenting’ trope.

For people saying ask for a referral for CAHMS - please be realistic!

I have a child who has been waiting a year SINCE she was accepted onto a waiting list for specific treatment. My child has serious mental health problems - beyond what the OP is describing here.

The OP is correct - you have to really seek out and possibly pay for help if your child needs it. The first step though is working out what your child needs - and if that is linked to SEN that is a battle in itself.

again - nobody is going to take those steps for you unfortunately.

I find some of the advice here quite alarming. If a child has SEN a lot of this advice is actually dangerously wrong.

There's loads of good books on ASD and PDA. An early poster suggested the Explosive child, which is a great book. Many discipline and consequences don't work on ASD children, but you have to keep on going, keep on trying. Thats part of the painful, soul-destroying journey I'm afraid.

It had been suggested repeatedly to OP that she starts a thread in SN, to get good advice and support.

@waterrat I disagree. No one has implied she's gonna get an nhs camhs referral quickly. But she hasn't even got GP or School to even refer yet. And posters gave advice about seeing Consultant privately in the meantime.

Ultimately its really important to understand if there are ND additional needs as it changes a lot about how you need to parent. Things that work for typical kids can have a really negative impact on ND kids. Which over time will lead to far worse behavioural issues.

I replied yesterday to suggest some books and a weighted blanket.

I came back to say that my child really struggled at home and was fine in school. We were dismissed at every turn. We only got help when he was not fine in school and was a nuicance to them. Then suddenly all the history of me approaching the gp, the health visiting service, teachers and so on was on our records and did count in the diagnosis. But we got nowhere until he kept trying to throw himself out a window at school.

The other thing i tell parents thinking some sort of adhd or autism might be a possibility is you can just go ahead and use autism/adhd/pda friendly techniques. They dont harm neurtypical children. I struggled with this thinking if i do these autism things am I labelling him or making excuses when everyone has just dismissed me. Anyway my NT responded well to them too and i realised i had almost been waiting for permission to do really simple things. So do look up techniques that are autims/adhd friendly and use them.

My other take is those massive meltdowns are generally either sensory issues or communication issues. So look into those.

I'd second this advice - my friend's son has ODD and he presented very similar to your child. If possible seek private assessment - schools, LA's, etc are overwhelmed and take too long to get any decent help.

I do think behaviour challenges are really important to support early, and for some reason we are really bad at offering any effective help until things have set in for years.

I disagree that a diagnosis with ‘solve’ the issue. Focus on the behaviour. And anyway I have children with diagnosis and I found they got zero help for behaviour, if anything people ignored it even more such as teachers as they saw it as ‘just part of a diagnosis’. Also it’s a long wait and you need to do something now.

Honestly? I’d pay for even one session with a really good behaviour specialist, google and search for a qualified professional.

Generally, look for triggers. Most behaviour is communication - it’s often saying ‘I am not coping… I need more of… ‘ and it’s our job to find out what this is. What happens BEFORE the behaviour, really think of this. And what were YOU doing before the behaviour, in the way that you speak, body language, the environment.

For example, my DS would scream ‘at random’ - but it was never really ‘at random’. When I spent time actually paying attention, it was when there was a lot of noise, when we were taking an unfamiliar walking route, when I was asking him questions, when other people were around, when change in his routine, when I wasn’t giving him enough attention, when he was tired, when he was ill…

DS now hardly ever screams, because I’ve eliminated almost all the causes. I don’t take him to noisy places, I don’t ask him questions, I don’t change routine, I give him enough attention, I make sure he has enough sleep, I really check to see if he’s sick… It’s a LOT of work to do this. But it’s the only way, no shortcuts.

Thank you, I will definitely be looking into this more now as it’s been raised by so many people.

PDA/ODD have such terrifying names and even I see that they sound “excusey” when parents try to say that they think their child might have them but I do assume that a professional would be able to tell them apart.

Your frustration is completely understandable OP. The SEN board would be a better place to post. Re school, they are slow to refer in my experience. My DD exhibited same behaviours at school as at home so they placed her in the nurture room, a soft start and taught social skills. Even so, even though they saw it, they were still loathe to refer until she was 7. Essentially waiting out the possibility of it just being a phase. Tbh by that point I'd run the gamut of health visitors and GPS and 'this is normal'....yes all these behaviours may be normal to some degree but the difference is the excess of the behaviour, the disproportion of the emotional reaction and how long it takes to regulate them. How regular behavioural tactics simply do not work, no matter how firm you are or how consistent you are. There is another internal driver for the behaviour which you cannot counteract by simply stamping down on it.

The book 'the explosive child' was useful to us. Also pictures worked infinitely better than spoken words for communicating desired behaviour(look up social stories). For understanding, dd will respond if I write down a question ('how are you feeling?' ) and give multi choice. But says she doesn't know if I ask her the open question. Diagnosis or not, understanding our kids is unique to them. I tried all sorts. It was all trial and error. This is not your fault. None of us are experts on child psychology. Most of us with SEN kids spend a lot of time doubting ourselves and our parenting. (Did I do this?). No you did not. Any adequate adult can raise a regular child. It's not rocket science....naughty behaviour? Proportionate consequence. Acts of kindness? Helpfulness? Praise and rewards. Parental attention and love generally.

For SEN kids there is just something else going on...and it takes a long time to understand them and help them.

It’s a really good general rule, ND or not, that if your child is calmer and happier, you are doing it right. If they continue to be distressed, it’s not working. And also ND or not, advice about triggers is the same.

Work out WHY, why is he behaving like this? And this won’t be obvious even with a diagnosis.

Read Philip Greens the Explosive Child.

Sounds like SEN to me, adhd or a defiance disorder, at such a young age there’s certainly something going on that isn’t typical. But knew instantly someone would reply about ‘labelling children’, gosh yes it’s so terrible that disabilities are being diagnosed for what they are these days 🙄. And they’re not an excuse either, again really ableist ways of thinking.

Please don’t try and ‘scare the living daylights’ out of him. You model the behaviour you want from your children, would you want someone screaming like a batshit loon in your face? Imagine what that’s like for a 6 year old with low emotional regulation as it is. You are the adult, you have to keep it together at all possible moments even if you feel like you’re on the brink.