Adults are given more allowances than children

[Easterbunny23]

Caveat that I work in the lame duck sanctuary civil service where we seem to be expected to give limitless adjustments to whiney adults.

But I just saw a post from a teacher about rude 6-8 year olds, and while I understand how frustrating that must be for a teacher, I genuinely believe children are expected to put up and shut up more than adults.

I have worked with so many adults who:

• state they don’t like taking notes so never bring a pen to a meeting and expect more senior staff to follow up with emails about what work they need to do from the meeting
• get annoyed if you call them without warning when WFH
• cannot understand simple instructions, have to be video called, had screens shared for very basic tasks
• complain about not being given any meaningful work when they are off sick for 3 months at a time twice a year
• want all the adjustments going - cameras off in meetings when WFH, special ergonomic chairs, keypads etc

The list could go on! Not to mention just the general adjustments you make for colleagues depending on their preferred communications style (instant messages versus phone calls) and work style.

My point is that children in school are expected to just conform, to have the same needs as the rest of the 30 children, to sit super still and quietly on uncomfortable plastic chairs, to only go to the toilet when they’re allowed to…and any that don’t fall in line are fast seen as a problem!

School and exams have a one size fits all experience!

Rubbish for any child that falls outside of the norm.

I agree, to me it seems out of step with how we parent now and based on victorian schooling. Not sure what the answer is though as individualised approach for all is unrealistic, but there is a thread about AI in the classroom, perhaps this is the future.

This made me smile
are workers' rights making a comeback? I hope so.

Yes, well, thats because we're grown ups. Whats the puzzle here?

Well those "whiney adults" were children once so the lack of flexibility at school didn't do them any good did it.

You are of course completely right. If an alien species observed how we treat children in the school system, they'd most likely exterminate us from orbit.

I remember thinking how we try to teach children that they don't get their own way through having a tantrum and yet I've seen loads of people have tantrums at work and get whatever they want.

I think one of the reasons we see so many awkward adults is the way children are treated! I think plenty of people think 'fuck you, I won't do what you tell me' as adults after being forced to wear polyester blazers in 35 degrees by our mad society.

In the UK children have too few rights, in the US they are better protected under the constitution.

in the US they are better protected under the constitution.
the right to bear arms bit of the constitution that results in all the school shootings?

I think having workers rights is great. But agree that we seem harsher as a society on children, who also need help and accomodations.

Totally agree.
I do think we often hold children to higher standards than we hold adults.
It could be called ‘adultism’.
Unfortunately we still have the hangover of ‘children should be seen and not heard’ in the uk and also we live in a very school-centric society where school is so normalised we don’t question its validity.

Like a PP said what madness to expect all children to fit a one-size-fits-all system of education by sitting at a desk all day doing academic work wearing mini-adults clothing made of polyester.

• *state they don’t like taking notes so never bring a pen to a meeting and expect more senior staff to follow up with emails about what work they need to do from the meeting
• get annoyed if you call them without warning when WFH
• cannot understand simple instructions, have to be video called, had screens shared for very basic tasks
• complain about not being given any meaningful work when they are off sick for 3 months at a time twice a year
• want all the adjustments going - cameras off in meetings when WFH, special ergonomic chairs, keypads etc*

I think your work is the problem here, I’ve not come across any of these in my work (private sector consultancy).

@picturethispatsy ha, I think you’re right!

@WhatNoRaisins yes I know plenty of grown adults who will have tantrums when they don’t get what they want!

@Easterbunny23
I’ve thought the same for a long time. I left teaching to home educate my own DC as I fundamentally disagree with the entire school system and how we treat children.

Like a PP said it also affects those children as adults. There’s this huge misconception that school sets children up for adult life but I disagree. I think it does the opposite. Forced learning. Lack of independence and independent thinking. Singular focus on academics. No real life skills or experience. Unnatural environment for 6-7 hours a day with just people who of the exact same age. We’re not equipping people properly for the world of work/adulthood.

Definitely agree. I find it cruel really how children are treated in schools. I've been looking for primary schools for my ds and some of the rules they have for such small children is insane. Must only walk on the left of the corridor, must give way to teachers at all times and the one I dislike the most is that children must obey teachers at all times. I think this is a terrible thing to teach children that they must obey no matter what. Honestly it sounds like they've more freedom in prisons

Education hasn’t been for a purpose for a long time. Kids are leaving school without any suitable skills that they will find purposeful in the workplace.

Agree with you completely OP- on both points.

I’ve had people shouting at me if I’ve called them to let know they can start later/ earlier than usual if they want- just trying to be considerate of their work/life balance. But apparently you aren’t allowed to call people on their days off! ( this was when I worked somewhere with shifts, and was suggesting it for their benefit)

Meanwhile I know several parents of teenagers with ADHD where the kids get sent home if they’re a few minutes late. I get that punctuality is important in the real world, but these kids have organisational/ time keeping difficulties They are also still kids and need an education.

Can you imagine sending a kid in a wheelchair home because they can’t get up the stairs?

I agree that secondary schools.tbese days seem more like prisons.it has happened since academisation. Detentions for forgetting your pencil or if you are wearing the wrong shoes. Not being allowed to go to the toilet even to change/put in a tampon without a toilet slip. I have absolutely no idea what kind of working life those schools think they are preparing the children for. I'm not surprised there is a mental health crisis for young people.

Schools are slowly beginning to recognise that accommodations do need to be made for many children, it’s not unusual now to see children using specialist equipment/ seating (from low tech like pen grips, wobble cushions, visual timetables etc to dictaphones, laptops, tablets etc) in the classroom, children may receive extra time in exams, some children may have sensory breaks built into their day. Work should be differentiated so that it is matched to the child’s level.

The difficulty in schools is that often the needs of students are missed and it’s not clear that a child needs accommodations or what these should be. By adulthood a person will generally be more aware of their needs and the adaptions they need and are more confident to request them, most of what you have said in your OP doesn’t seem unreasonable to ask for in a workplace. If needs and accommodations are identified when a student is at school then they aren’t unreasonable to ask for there either.

I had a bit of an epiphany a few years ago. DS didn't want to go somewhere - a regular activity - and there was a bit of a hoo-har between us, around the fact he ought to go, I had paid for 10 sessions, letting other people down etc - the usual stuff parents say. He said he didn't want to stop doing it, just didn't want to go that week.

Roll forward two evenings and I didn't want to go to do a thing I usually did on a Thursday evening. I said over dinner that I wasn't going because I didn't feel like it today

DS repeated virtually word-for-word what I had said to him two days previously.

And I though, "he is right" I am expecting more from a 10 year old than from myself. Generally speaking, we do make more allowances for adults than children.

My point is that children in school are expected to just conform, to have the same needs as the rest of the 30 children, to sit super still and quietly on uncomfortable plastic chairs, to only go to the toilet when they’re allowed to…and any that don’t fall in line are fast seen as a problem!

This is why the majority of ASD children are EBSA’s. And why there are so many mental health issues amongs teenagers. Schools need to move away from the stupid Victorian style of discipline.

I never took notes in meetings. That’s what minutes are for. If someone wants you to do something then I’d expect an email then they’ve got a paper trail. What is the point of everyone taking notes?

To be fair, I feel I’m a very flexible and adaptable teacher and who gives lots of allowances to students in order to allow them to achieve their best.

But I don’t enjoy being shouted at, injured, run away from, sworn out, talked over constantly or have them hurt others… I wouldn’t accept an adult doing these either.

if my collegues did this, I’d likely lodge a complaint or even call the police for the more serious incidents. I can’t do that with children. Often I find that they are given a lot of leeway on this now.

Ive been in lots of schools and this behaviour is increasing.

While I very much dislike what I hear about some vey prescriptive academy secondary schools, try to teach 30 children in a primary or 25 teenagers in a secondary school classroom (and keep them all safe) without rules. Never mind over a thousand teenagers in a secondary school during breaks, lunchtime and transition times.

Seriously. 30 children. In one small room. With one adult to wrangle them all. The teacher doesn't just have to keep some kind of order, s/he has to teach them stuff. Mumsnet is full of parents who post here because they're struggling to manage their two children!

What rights do American schoolkids have that British ones don't? Other than the right to be shot, of course.

Workers' rights in the US are appalling.