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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To take the Bio-dad to court or accept the money offered

97 replies

56253tT · 07/07/2023 11:38

My child’s Bio-dad has informed me he will be going to work away and that the country he will be working in isn’t on the CMS list of countries they can enforce payment from, neither can CMS get his earnings from HMRC as he won’t be paid by a UK company. He has said he will pay £200 a month, this is down 70% from what he currently pays!!

He has never had any contact with child (his choice) we were in a casual relationship so I don’t know much details or have friends in common to find out more for CMS.

Where do I stand with all of this? Can I take him to court before he goes stating that he legally has to pay me, in the UK or not? Im assuming he will be coming home every so often as he has a family and young children (my child’s payments were lowered because of children added to case over the years) so once he comes back to the UK, can he be obtained and made to pay while here?

Thank you

OP posts:
Annaishere · 07/07/2023 17:52

Sorry, I shouldn’t have over- generalised

TBOM · 07/07/2023 17:53

Where is he being paid? That arrangement sounds very like he'll still be being contracted out of and paid in the UK. I think he's chancing it.

Annaishere · 07/07/2023 17:54

(@Mumofspurs )

Starlightstarbright2 · 07/07/2023 18:01

Inkpotlover · 07/07/2023 17:47

So a DNA test confirmed he was the father, but he's not on the birth certificate? I'm asking because I thought without the latter, he could deny all responsibility for supporting the child.

A father should legally support his child . It has nothing to do with bc.
mid they deny parentage can apply for dna otherwise are required to pay

InceyWinceySpidy · 07/07/2023 18:03

Is he living outside the UK, or just working outside the UK.

If he's still keeping a residence in the UK (amongst other things) he will fail the non residency test. He will be deemed a UK citizen and his earnings should go on a tax return. There's confusion about this, because paying zero UK tax is not the same as not having taxable income. Say he earns £100k. He may well have zero personal UK tax to pay on his tax return, but that's just the calculation done for his tax. It's feck all to do with child maintenance, the whole £100k is assessable income.

If he's leaving the country permanently, fine, he's not liable to CMS. I'm presuming he's doing something in either the oil field, or close protection though? In order to not fill in a UK tax return, he has to be a non UK resident, and my guess is he's coming back to the UK in between stints.

PaigeMatthews · 07/07/2023 18:05

Inkpotlover · 07/07/2023 17:47

So a DNA test confirmed he was the father, but he's not on the birth certificate? I'm asking because I thought without the latter, he could deny all responsibility for supporting the child.

That’s not true.

GoblinAeroplane · 07/07/2023 18:40

56253tT · 07/07/2023 17:33

I’m a little confused by this comment tbh.

He works on the rigs….

I know a few guys working in the oil field in Iraq, they're all based in Dubai. If the UK has a CMS agreement with UAE, it may be worth double checking his actual registered base, if you can.

whynotwhatknot · 07/07/2023 18:54

is he being paid from a uk company though or not

you need to know this before you go ahead with any agreement

InceyWinceySpidy · 07/07/2023 19:14

whynotwhatknot · 07/07/2023 18:54

is he being paid from a uk company though or not

you need to know this before you go ahead with any agreement

Yes and no.

My ex is not paid by a UK company. I still get direct CMS payments though.

Is he UK resident. Not a UK tax payer. Is he resident. That's the key. This is a massive misconception. Believe me, I've been there.

getafringenotbotox · 07/07/2023 19:28

EvilElsa · 07/07/2023 11:43

I would take that at face value and speak with CMS and potentially a solicitor before making any decisions. Good luck. Sick to death of these useless fuckers doing everything they can to avoid paying for their own kids. Don't know how they live with themselves.

This is exactly how I feel.

Why the fuck the government don't anything I don't know. Vile.

housedramas · 07/07/2023 19:37

I know it will be difficult but I'd accept the £200. IME you don't have a leg to stand on if he isn't even on the BC. £200 isn't great but it's something. It what I receive for my Daughter and although I feel she is entitled to more I don't want to rock the boat. I wouldn't push it too much, things could end up worse than they are.

Stomacharmeleon · 07/07/2023 20:56

My ex husband worked abroad as a mercenary (I kid you not) in afghanistan.
I found out who owned the company (American) and told him I would approach them. He renegotiated the cms payment and paid me direct. He was earning thousands.

I had tools to negotiate though. He saw them whenever home so he relied on my goodwill and we had been married.
It may be better for you to accept the payment. And try and negotiate when he is home.

Soontobe60 · 07/07/2023 23:20

Annaishere · 07/07/2023 15:50

Universal credit at the basic rate isn’t enough to live on. Income support is good but is cut at the child’s age 5. I would like to see it extended up to at least age 12

I know plenty of people who manage to live reasonably well on UC.

Annaishere · 07/07/2023 23:33

Soontobe60 · 07/07/2023 23:20

I know plenty of people who manage to live reasonably well on UC.

With kids ?

Willyoujustbequiet · 07/07/2023 23:54

Makemyday99 · 07/07/2023 15:35

Most men that work are taxpayers so they are already paying it back. Benefits are not there to cover shortfalls in maintenance & children are a choice so to suggest that taxpayers are responsible for a grown adult’s choices is absurd.

That argument doesn't hold up as no one can see into the future. You can make choices in good faith and take all precautions possible and people will still abandon their children.

Given that the vast majority people have contributed to the system they are perfectly entitled to expect support from the state if necessary. Children should not suffer due to feckless fathers.

Willyoujustbequiet · 07/07/2023 23:56

getafringenotbotox · 07/07/2023 19:28

This is exactly how I feel.

Why the fuck the government don't anything I don't know. Vile.

Because its women and children being shafted that's why.

56253tT · 08/07/2023 07:54

InceyWinceySpidy · 07/07/2023 18:03

Is he living outside the UK, or just working outside the UK.

If he's still keeping a residence in the UK (amongst other things) he will fail the non residency test. He will be deemed a UK citizen and his earnings should go on a tax return. There's confusion about this, because paying zero UK tax is not the same as not having taxable income. Say he earns £100k. He may well have zero personal UK tax to pay on his tax return, but that's just the calculation done for his tax. It's feck all to do with child maintenance, the whole £100k is assessable income.

If he's leaving the country permanently, fine, he's not liable to CMS. I'm presuming he's doing something in either the oil field, or close protection though? In order to not fill in a UK tax return, he has to be a non UK resident, and my guess is he's coming back to the UK in between stints.

Thank you this is very helpful, wasn’t much online to help me. So if he’s working away in Iraq for a few weeks, then home for a few weeks and being paid by an Iraq company (I’m just guessing) he won’t pay any tax but will still have to declare his earnings with HMRC on a tax return….is that only if he earns so much? Just with him being employed….didn’t think you did tax returns on PAYE? Thanks

OP posts:
InceyWinceySpidy · 08/07/2023 09:52

So, if he's employed by a UK company, under UK PAYE, then he's under the remit of CMS. They will assess his earnings no differently than if he was on PAYE at Superdrug.

If he's on the payroll of a non UK company, then he will pay tax at source in that company, but as a UK resident, he needs to declare this on a UK tax return. He will fall under something called double taxation relief, which essentially means, he puts £100k of foreign income on his tax return, and his UK tax is wiped out because he can counterbalance the UK tax calculated with what he's paid abroad. No tax to pay. But a UK tax return, fully assessable by CMS.

If he's a sole trader (unlikely) or a limited company and set himself up so he invoices people for work done, then he also should be putting this on a UK tax return.

Does he rent or own a permanent property in the UK? He'll do well to claim he's got no residency here if he has. And he needs to submit a return.

If he's a twat and doesn't submit his tax returns, so the CMS can't see any income, then you call your MP and get the financial investigation unit involved. Who will access all his accounts, and see any money coming in. Then they will force him to attend an interview. When they see this is what should be on a tax return, they will inform HMRC, and do a calculation on his income, as if they had seen it.

Sources: I am a qualified accountant, and have just spent the last 4 years battling my twat of an ex doing the exact same thing. On an overseas payroll. Hasn't done a tax return since 2016. CMS can't assess what they can't see. MP got the FIU to do a full investigation. They hauled him in and presented him with a copy of the deeds to his house and his mortgage and all his bank statements (he was pretending not to be UK resident as well) and backdated the last 4 years of CMS to me on the large salary he was receiving in Euros.

Fucking idiot men stooping to any level to deny their child the support they need.

Notmineagain · 08/07/2023 12:40

Disgusting that in a first world country that these people get away with it. I'm from a developing country and even there, you could sue the fathers family for maintenance. And you pay maintenance from your salary directly.

OnGoldenPond · 08/07/2023 15:23

Inkpotlover · 07/07/2023 17:47

So a DNA test confirmed he was the father, but he's not on the birth certificate? I'm asking because I thought without the latter, he could deny all responsibility for supporting the child.

Not true, if paternity is proved by DNA test he is legally liable to support his child financially. Being on the birth certificate gives parental responsibility, which gives rights to a say in major decisions on the child's upbringing, such as schooling, medical care etc. OPs ex could have gone to court to be put on the birth certificate to get a say in these things but he hasn't as he wants nothing to do with the child.

TBOM · 08/07/2023 16:38

I’m employed by a US company, on a US payroll and pay tax in the US. Because I maintained a residence and family links to the UK, I have to fill in a UK tax return and am treated by the HMRC as if I‘’m a UK tax resident and if my exDH wanted to make a CMS claim against me he could. He doesn’t have to because I’m not a twat. Good luck, OP, but I would definitely be getting legal advice if I were you.

TBOM · 08/07/2023 16:39

@InceyWinceySpidy

Yes exactly this.

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