The classic 'why don't you retrain?' question on MN

[theresalwaysguineapigcurry]

I've just read the 4999th 'why don't you retrain?' suggestion on mumsnet in the last week and I want to scream.
I am a single parent, trying to escape mostly minimum wage admin jobs. I have a degree and I'm relatively skilled. I've never had a 'career' as much as I've tried, I have applied for many graduate jobs, schemes, companies with progression opportunities. I think part of this is down to wanting to stay in the public sector and third sector. The highest level I've got is around 27K and then after that there's no more opportunities.
I do have limitations in that I'm not interested in working with numbers or HR. I like people, I like working in roles where you deal directly with people. I couldn't work in procurement or accounts or payroll.
So I decided to retrain and was lucky enough to be accepted onto a scheme which will allow me to become qualified in around two years. You also get paid a basic wage.
Whilst I am grateful this job has involved taking a £300 a month pay cut, having to commute 35 miles each day, having to find childcare which goes on past six to cope with the commute, doing my coursework on evenings and weekends, having to find overnight childcare for a week for training, giving up my NHS holiday allowance and only getting five days off between now and Christmas to cover all school holidays and also risking failing at it and then being unemployed.
So whilst I don't doubt that it will pay off and I pray I can make it work, it has taken every ounce of my courage and I still have frequent moments of thinking what the hell have I done. I simply could not have done it without support from my parents and their dad (one day a week). Lots of people don't have this, especially single mums.
So what I'm saying is, when people trot out the 'why don't you retrain?' line, please some idea of what that actually means and the work involved, also what these magical retraining opportunities are. I see 'part time accountancy' or 'open university' are often suggested without little insight about whether that suits the person's skills or whether they can afford the fees. If a mum is struggling on MW trying to make ends meet, it's very unlikely she could shell out for tuition fees!
Oh yes and the whole 'should have established a career before kids'. Well if we all had known that our relationships would fall apart, mortgage rates would rocket and lurpak would cost £15 then we'd all be playing the lottery more frequently!

Agree.

@baroqueandblue yes I thought as much. It just gets so tiring pointing things out like 'if she irons she's going to need insurance which will be more than the income from the ironing'
'She doesn't drive so probably can't become a cleaner'
'If she works in the school office the likelihood is she'll need to start early so who is going to drop off her five kids to their four different settings?'
It's not work shy to say that some jobs just aren't feasible for your situation!

Wrong board, @theresalwaysguineapigcurry - this is where you wanted to post:

Mature Study and Retraining board.

(But, seriously, did you not realise before that life can be very … difficult? That’s the reason there’s a whole separate topic on MN to support people through exactly what you’re doing …)

I hear you. See also, if teaching is that bad why don’t you leave.

@CountryCousin I did realise and thought about it long and hard, which is why it pisses me off when 'retraining' is casually dropped into threads like it's not 1.) time consuming 2.) expensive 3.) not possible for many parents.
Add a SEN child or no support network or MH issues, it becomes quickly apparent that it isn't an option at all for some.

Brilliant post.

And just to say, I 'established a career' before kids, was made redundant after mat leave, moved countries to follow DH's job and have struggled to get back into a 'career' type job ever since, and am on about 15k less than I earned over a decade ago, mainly because I'm the main carer for the kids and elderly parents now too so need a job that fits since there's no-one else to do it. I have no back up and no support other than DH and he works long hours and can't really contribute to the caring stuff. It's basically all me except in emergencies.

And I'm not even a single parent, so I know I have it much easier!

Well done OP, it sounds like hard work but I wish you every success and I hope it works out really well for you. It's good to see a realistic post and I get frustrated by the 'just retrain' posts too, a lot of people as you say really wouldn't be able to do what you're doing, the £300 per month pay cut is a lot before you even consider the commute, overnight childcare etc. Wishing you all the very best.

This one is good advice though. You can always go back to it.

@dimorphism and it's that 'job that fits in' part which kills any hope of a career isn't it? Very very few people are willing to train you (I.e. invest in you) and then be willing to consider part time, flexi, hybrid, whatever else you need without knowing you. It's so hard to make that leap and then having to 'prove yourself'. I find myself saying yes to things when internally I'm thinking 'how the hell am I going to make this work?'

Agree OP. I looked into retraining last year which would have required a masters - couldn't get a answer from any university as to what the course hours were so that made childcare impossible unless we did full time nursery and wraparound care at a cost of around £450 a week. I can't afford that now, let alone eking out a small student loan.

The only women I know who've managed to retrain have their parents or in laws on full time childcare duty.

@Wicksytricksy what was that in, just out of interest? Did the uni have any sort of nursery? X

Completely agree OP. I'm an accountant in the public sector, and the sector is really good at providing time off for study, covering fees etc. But fundamentally, you have to do homework, and really put your back into the studying. It has to come first, for the two/three months of the year you're working on it (for at least three years).
I'm in awe of women with kids who have managed to achieve a CCAB qualification after becoming mothers - but there are not that many of them, for quite obvious reasons. I qualified through a graduate scheme in my early twenties - I know my experience of qualifying will be nothing like as hard as theirs.

I see this a lot on MN too, and I fucking hate it. I am in the LCWRA group of UC, and was told I should use my time "not working" to retrain... like I could afford any course (and no, the countless Gov funded lvl 2 ones don't mean much, plus I did try one and could not even do that).
I live alone, so no one to support me if I went back into education. My benefits would be stopped if I could manage a course anyway.

Absolutely OP!
I'm in a very low paid job... I'm a Special Ed TA.
I have a degree, but four children, one of whom has special needs...and my Dh was for many years in the Armed Forces.
I actually did start to retrain ..doing a second degree in Occupational Therapy, and then Dh got posted to a war zone, I had no family near to help with child care, and I had to withdraw in my second year because I simply couldn't juggle childcare/afford it.
Now my kids are grown...but I still have one with SN at home and always will. And I'm too old to realistically train for a different career (mid 50s) and I'm needed as Grannyc are as my duaghter couldn't manage HER career without me caring for my little grandchild.

It sucks!

The reason people suggest accountancy is that you can be "training" on the job, earning 30k, sent to college during working hours funded by the employer & able to study flexibly in evenings/weekends, with salaries easily hitting 40k plus on qualifying.

Its like a well paid 9-5 job, but you are training within that and improving your prospects as you go.

@Yellowlegobrick but I am really really bad at maths... and organisation. You could not make an accountant out of just anyone. The basic capability has to be there.

Not everyone is cut out to be an accountant.
It is the same when people suggest you try coding... like it is something everyone has an aptitude for. I had to some as part of a course years back. Someone else did the coursework for me.... I could not do it all.

@StillMedusa as the mother of a child with autism, you are worth your weight in gold to me. Teachers are great but her T.A honestly makes everything 100% better. I dread you guys being off sick more than I dread being sick myself!
I wish wish wish you were paid what you deserve. Not everyone could do your job!

@XenoBitch exactly. I find it really frustrating when the OP says that they're creative or like helping vulnerable people and they get suggestions to become an accountant or sell garden furniture remotely. It's like saying they don't have the right to have a preference in terms of their career.

In the nicest way, if you are generally not academic etc, there's a big question whether retraining will even boost your earnings.

Take childcare - you could do all the lectures x training and the reality is, you'll earn more as a PA in a big company planninh travel and meetings.

. It's like saying they don't have the right to have a preference in terms of their career.

Well no, people are suggesting well paid jobs that fit well around family life.

Reality is creative or people focussed jobs pay piss all.

I totally agree. Retraining is time consuming, expensive and not always feasible. Also people on here talk about OU like it’s still really cheap. And I couldn’t afford it even when it was cheap.

The OP men two sectors I've worked in. Public sector and third sector. The first was waiting for dead mens shoes. Took a break to have two babies. Retrained to get a degree in marketing. Worked in hospitality the pay was meh but I enjoyed it. Then ten years in the third sector where the pay hardly rose although the responsibility did.

I couldn't have worked in a high flying career with two children to raise.

I tried it when it was cheap. I can't do self directed study at all. I literally need a hand hold to get anything like that done.

@Yellowlegobrick who said I'm not academic? I'm not good at maths but I have a 2:1 degree and a good understanding of the sector I want to go into. I can articulate myself well. Plus I think you'll find most high paying firms want well educated P.A's these days who can match the register of their clients and write emails on their behalf with the correct tone and phraseology.

There’s that too! I was bad enough at self-motivation at a real university (where I scraped a fairly useless degree).