Is the UK beyond repair?

[Brrrrrrrrrrrr]

I’m sure plenty will come along to say I’m BU but for the past few weeks I’ve really started to question where this country and our society is heading and whether or not things are ever going to get better and when that might be.

We have economic chaos driven by high inflation, increasing interest rates and a total lack of urgency by anyone in charge to seemingly do anything about it. We have a government in power that seem to have nothing but contempt for anyone that doesn’t resemble their backers, ministers openly mocking critics on social media and a PM who can not remember if he may or may not have had something to do with benefiting from £5 million of Russian money. What on Earth have we become?

Our Health service is being systematically picked apart and left to decay away much to the detriment of those who rely on it or who cannot afford Private healthcare. We have Medical professionals striking because they are underpaid again to the detriment of those who rely on said services, wait lists are through the roof and the levels of care being received are understandably inadequate.

The education sector is a ticking time bomb because teachers are seeing the demands of their roles increase, funding cuts, the behaviour of the pupils start to become impossible to manage and the prospect of an easier life switching to another career too hard to resist.

Food bank usage is at an all time high, not just by those in charge who don’t know poverty but working professionals who can not afford to feed their families because the cost of living has zapped every last penny from them. The reality on the streets of real life Is so far detached from that seen on social media that it’s like looking at a different planet.

It just feels bleak and I don’t see how things are going to change, I’m often an optimist but this is stretching any semblance of light in the tunnel. Anyone else? Is this the type of world you want your children to live in? Surely they deserve better? How can this be fixed?

It wasn't Labour though was it? It was New Labour led by a man happy to carry on Thatcherism.

Only someone who wasn’t there would even think of saying that. 1997 to 2010 was a different planet to 1979 to 1992.

And Starmer seems in the same vein fwiw.

We need voting reform to get away from the tired duopoly. A vaguely left leaning Labour and the press destroy them (Kinnock, Milliand, Corbyn). Starmer will be palatable enough to Murdoch and co.

YANBU OP. The Tories have destroyed the country and they're not finished yet.

Whoever comes next has a mountain to climb, but with the Tories out of power we can at least start climbing it. I do not share @TomatoSandwiches view that they'll be elected again. The few people who aren't yet turned off the Conservatives will cop on as another year brings more sleaze to the surface, exposes more of lies we've been told and a long hot summer and hard winter progresses.

There is no hope while they are in power. But in 18months they'll be gone and the country can begin to recover and climb that mountain.

Is this written by a paid writer posing as a poster on MN ? It is exactly what I was discussing in another thread a few days ago

Yes I'm sorry it was the same old Labour with the smarmy frontman Blair/Starmer, the token "working class" thickies Prescott/Rayner the feral activists Socialist Worker/Antifa and a rag-tag assortment of militant unions pulling the strings in the background. It hasn't changed.

Absolutely, but they didn't properly change things in 13 years. Thatcher revolutionised Britain (very much for the worse in most areas) Labour didn't and they didn't reverse enough of her disasters.

They were happy to carry on with privitasation, de-regulation etc and themselves created the property bubble. House prices were affordable in 1997.

I feel like it genuinely is different to previous 'bad times'. I've been struggling to put my finger on why...

I think it's because we're in the middle of a 'bad time' right now but there are many, extremely large problems that are still only just beginning.

The impact of climate change, the population decline / aging, the decline of the West, the potential for AI to overtake human intelligence.

In previous 'bad times' we were hitting what felt like rock bottom but we didn't have four, massive things still only just on the horizon. Depending on your opinion at least two of these huge things are inevitable...I believe all four are inevitable.

That's why it's different to the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2008.

The old ‘socialism hasn’t been tried properly’ argument. It was labour alright, and they were disastrous. Almost as disastrous as the current crop of Tories.

I think Labour are a terrible party tbf that still dine out on Clement Attlee and 1945, what have they achieved since that one term government in the 1940s?

The Liberal Party achieved more over the years when they got in and then Labour turned up to wipe their vote.

They really weren’t. The Blair/Brown governments were far from perfect but they were the best of my lifetime - which sadly has been predominantly under Tory rule.

Fortunately we have more than two political parties in our democracy. People who don't like Labour have other choices. There are some who won't vote at all.

As long as people don't vote Tory we can start to get better.

The Liberal Party achieved more over the years when they got in and then Labour turned up to wipe their vote.

Nobody alive has ever seen a Liberal government. How far are you going to go back? To the Whigs?

They delivered the GFA which changed the lives of everyone in NI and the UK. That was monumental.

@Hawkins0001

I'm intrigued as to what you meant by this...

"As for the banking industry those that know will know what's cooking, it's the public not having the full understanding and details of it all, that makes it seem like our leaders don't know what's what."

I can't believe how invisible Sunak is. I have no idea what he's doing/ what any plans are/ what leadership he is showing. I'm normally quite happy to give people the benefit of the doubt but we really need a strong leader who has clout to sort stuff out!
Having said that, I wouldn't want to do it!!

Having lived a long time I agree with a PP who said we need coalition governments. We need to be more mature about politics. The NHS, for example, is far too important to be controlled by whichever political party happens to be in power.

Two party politics is so boring. We need nuance. We need an end to corruption and jobs for the boys. Neither Labour or Conservative can claim the moral high ground there. It's depressing.

You need to look back in history to understand that there is a fluctation and ebb and flow in societies

Just off the top of my head, the really bad times before were

• the commonwealth
• black deaths (several)
• the wars (several)
• harrying of the North
• various political instabilities/infighting/royal takeovers and take backs again
• religious persecutions/instabilities

And more, all recovered from in the end, some which have hangovers still in terms of our culture or political/religious positions.

self inflicted

Personally I would go for a Swiss style voting system with the possibility of referendums if you collect enough signatures.

In Switzerland people often vote "left" on some issues, but "right" on others.

I don't think you want to vote for a party that has a few policies you like, bundled in with other policies that you hate.

Absolutely agree with this. I think some people here either aren’t old enough to have experienced this event or have short memories.
I wish there was a party I could actually get behind.

I feel very much the same, like we’re tumbling into an abyss that may be impossible to escape fully and I don’t ever remember feeling this way.

Agree about Climate change, it is a divisive subject that will polarise people even more as the effects start impacting us significantly more than just overly hot spells in summer.

The NHS is in dire straits, without enormous investment and recruitment it’s just going to get worse, what’s the solution? Private healthcare no one can afford?

The global economic outlook is bad right now for most countries but recovery will be far easier for those not struggling with any self inflicted damage such as Brexit, so we have that ball ache to contend with, trade deals anyone?

Covid is still out there so god knows what could happen with that- autumn winter just gone was a never ending cycle of sickness at my work place so I expect the next winter will be the same.

Millions are going to have a significant cut to disposable income with the mortgage rates which is going to send shock waves across the high street and small businesses.

Please if anyone has anything positive to throw into the mix fire away!

I think some people here either aren’t old enough to have experienced this event or have short memories.

There are. Namely the ones who think ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ or that the Blair government was red Thatcherism.

I think things can be drastically improved but I don't know if the solutions will be acceptable to people. AI is going to change everything and I think it's likely that we'll see Universal Basic Income in our lifetime in response.

But it's not just the UK - the world is literally on fire, and capitalist countries can't do anything radical about it because the system is rigged in favour of the rich and powerful.

In my more optimistic moments I'm relying on Gen Z and younger because they seem really angry about this and smart enough to come up with some solutions that might pull us back from the brink. In my less optimistic moments I think we're doomed and the planet will be a much happier place when humans have made ourselves extinct.

We really don't have more than two parties though do we, in England anyway? We have the conservatives or we have labour. In very few areas you can possibly elect a libdem instead of a conservative, but they won't ever form a government and so the best you can hope for is that they become a junior partner in a coalition and look how well that turned out last time.

You can of course vote for one of the other options (Green, Reform etc) but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are doing anything other than wasting your vote. Might as well just spoil your ballot paper.

Our electoral system is shit and, as previous posters have pointed out, it is one of the key reasons we are in this mess. It is unrepresentative, favours the status quo over the kind of meaningful change we desperately need and is so much easier for vested interests to manipulate when you realistically only have to donate to one party to get the influence you need.

We need electoral reform, but despite it being backed at the last labour conference, according to Guardian Keir Starmer has ruled it out if they get elected. For me, that tells me all I need to know about Starmer and where his convictions lie.

Democracy in this country is a farce and a sham.