Is the UK beyond repair?

[Brrrrrrrrrrrr]

I’m sure plenty will come along to say I’m BU but for the past few weeks I’ve really started to question where this country and our society is heading and whether or not things are ever going to get better and when that might be.

We have economic chaos driven by high inflation, increasing interest rates and a total lack of urgency by anyone in charge to seemingly do anything about it. We have a government in power that seem to have nothing but contempt for anyone that doesn’t resemble their backers, ministers openly mocking critics on social media and a PM who can not remember if he may or may not have had something to do with benefiting from £5 million of Russian money. What on Earth have we become?

Our Health service is being systematically picked apart and left to decay away much to the detriment of those who rely on it or who cannot afford Private healthcare. We have Medical professionals striking because they are underpaid again to the detriment of those who rely on said services, wait lists are through the roof and the levels of care being received are understandably inadequate.

The education sector is a ticking time bomb because teachers are seeing the demands of their roles increase, funding cuts, the behaviour of the pupils start to become impossible to manage and the prospect of an easier life switching to another career too hard to resist.

Food bank usage is at an all time high, not just by those in charge who don’t know poverty but working professionals who can not afford to feed their families because the cost of living has zapped every last penny from them. The reality on the streets of real life Is so far detached from that seen on social media that it’s like looking at a different planet.

It just feels bleak and I don’t see how things are going to change, I’m often an optimist but this is stretching any semblance of light in the tunnel. Anyone else? Is this the type of world you want your children to live in? Surely they deserve better? How can this be fixed?

My dad literally just said to me, if you can get out of the UK go.

And A level is too late: many won't study it. We've seen the effects of having a voting population who appear to have zero grasp of how currency strength, inflation, productivity, compound interest, trade deficits etc function even at a very basic level that could be taught in junior school. Even just the most basic fact that the only way to raise living standards sustainably is to improve productivity, so policies that disincentivise it are bad for everyone.

This results in an electorate that is easily manipulated and makes irrational and stupid decisions and a country that doesn't function. Then they complain about the lack of functionality and getting poorer while refusing to support any of the things that would improve it or putting any pressure on politicians to implement them. And bang on about irrelevancies that are a pittance in terms of the national budget while the big issues are ignored.

I'm in a by election area and i've just been looking at an interview with all the candidates, the four independents are beyond a joke, the green is clueless, the labour candidate clearly has zero experience and doesn't even live in the area, he's a good hours drive away. The tory candidate is arrogant beyond belief and seems to think she's just going to fall into the safe seat and the Lib Dem candidate was twittering on about how we MUST give up our cars and use public transport blissfully unaware that there is virtually no public transport in this area and what there is is about as good as a camel in the north pole. The interviewer made her look like a right idiot.
I'll be spoiling my paper. I'm not voting for anyone in this shit show.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Or, "career politicians" using it as a platform towards more lucrative work, with no real clue about anything.

Why would anybody with the skills we actually need to fix this mess give up a stable (and no doubt hard-worked for) to stand for office for a far lower paying role that they may or may not get, and even if they do is only for 4-5 years and involved huge public intrusion in their lives and a lot of abuse, and with a system set up so that they can't implement the changes required ^^ anyway?

*stable and successful careers

Apologies, my typing is atrocious today. Too much attempting to multi-task!

These are the same idiots who were turning up on these threads applauding lockdowns, furlough and asking why they couldn’t be furloughed as though it was a holidays. The same people whose answer to everything is to say spend more, as though it grows on trees. The same morons whose answer to every crisis is that ‘government should provide more help’ whiteout ever asking how the economy is growing, what is our budget defecit, what is out public spending as a % of GDP.

Nearly 50% of all spending in this country is government spending. Half of everything spent comes from taxation. This is insane. Utterly insane that we are taxing, borrowing and printing our way to disaster.

This. People bang on about the Scandi model thinking it will be more tax on higher/top rate payers. They fail to realise that it would be everyone else paying more tax. The rich and the lower earners. Earners on 50-150k are already heavily taxed - much won’t change for them.

People are so blinded by the politics of envy and spite, the sound bites the press put out etc. They just can’t see they are turkeys voting for Christmas. It feels right to tax people who earn more into oblivion. Yet, these same people are not willing to do it anymore. There comes a tipping point; the tax base is now so narrow - the whole house of cards is collapsing. It’s no good for anyone.

The teacher’s pay rise and condition of schools is another good example. It takes a fundamentally dumbed down population to not want the very best education for their children. We are pretty much unique in our country with the attitude we have to teachers, their pay, the state of schools etc. Therefore, if we can’t educate properly then the terminal decline will continue.

Yes it’s the same posters who demanded more lockdowns.

You could say it’ll bite in the end financially but they were pretty rabid.

This. People bang on about the Scandi model thinking it will be more tax on higher/top rate payers. They fail to realise that it would be everyone else paying more tax. The rich and the lower earners. Earners on 50-150k are already heavily taxed - much won’t change for them.

Exactly. You literally cannot tax this group more. They have been carrying the entire country for 15 years and are already cutting hours and declining promotions because working more would mean they get to keep 10% of their income, or in some cases at the £100k threshold lose ten of thousands of pounds of net income for earning £1 more and not be able to get back to the SAME net earnings they had from a £99,999 salary until they get a payrise to £150,000. A 50% rise. With all of the extra responsibility and work that entails, just to get back to the same take home pay! Clearly nobody will do that, and they are not doing that. So productivity flatlines. Quelle surprise. Penalise your most productive workers with a marginal tax rate of over 100% and what do you think will happen? And yet idiot bleat to tax these people more?! Mind boggling. What "more" is there?

The only way for the UK to fund service properly and repair its industry and economy and infrastructure is for the (vastly more numerous) people earning below £50k to start paying much more tax. I suspect the Brexit idiocy about "I don't mind being poorer" was driven by the same mentality: the idea that it will be someone else who pays. No. You want northern European-style services, then all working age people need to take some responsibility and contribute not always expect someone else to fund them and all of this "entitlement" mentality. People shouting "raise taxes" need to take a look at what average earners in Germany or Denmark or Sweden pay and then cough up.

While also a big clamp down on those who are self-employed paying next to nothing, as I said earlier.

People are so blinded by the politics of envy and spite, the sound bites the press put out etc. They just can’t see they are turkeys voting for Christmas. It feels right to tax people who earn more into oblivion. Yet, these same people are not willing to do it anymore. There comes a tipping point; the tax base is now so narrow - the whole house of cards is collapsing. It’s no good for anyone.

Exactly this as well. Stupid people who think anybody earning £50k upwards is "rich", apparently no clue about living costs in other areas, and also apparently don't grasp that if you penalise the most productive group of workers so highly that they stop bothering then productivity falls and everyone gets poorer. Narrowing the tax base so much that one group pays next to nothing and feels entitled to more and more for free, and one group pays absurd percentages but is increasingly told they shouldn't even receive the services they are paying for for themselves and everyone else and these should not be universal is obviously not going to be sustainable and lead to the fastest destruction of services you could design.

The teacher’s pay rise and condition of schools is another good example. It takes a fundamentally dumbed down population to not want the very best education for their children. We are pretty much unique in our country with the attitude we have to teachers, their pay, the state of schools etc. Therefore, if we can’t educate properly then the terminal decline will continue.

Agree. Education budget needs trebling (uprate teacher pay to make up that lost with inflation since 2010 - as for all public sector workers - and halve class sizes). The amount of tax revenue lost through Brexit already annually could fund this, and the 4% loss is compounding annually...

But they didn't, they chose countries like Germany Spain, France with CT in the 30% bracket, despite 10% or the UKs 19% we didn't see VW move production to Newcastle or Dublin

Germany, France etc have other attractive features like decent infrastructure, skilled workforces, and single market access. Technology and manufacturing is supported through educational infrastructure with high quality technical education and apprenticeships so that the skills base exists

You re just repeating what i said

If it were so simple that low CT attracts FI everyone would do it but they don't, even the US CT rate is 21%... has Apple/MS moved to ROI yet?

Are you seriously comparing the US economy to the UK economy?

How on earth did you draw that conclusion??? though posters have bought up that large US corps are based in ROI because of low CT...

Tax rates are not the only reason countries locate in country x or y, tax rates are also volatile, companies look at workforce, access to other markets, education/public services for their workforce, few companies will chose a country where their staff cannot get basic healthcare..... or where workers are stuck on unreliable trains/traffic jams

Nobody said they were the only reason. However, if you wish to change things you meed to first address the issues that are within direct Government control and can be done immediately. If any political party is serious about fixing the UK's problems their main manifesto proposals would be to make the tax changes I've outlined above on day one in office and immediately begin negotiations to rejoin the SM and CU. You won't have basic education and healthcare if you can't sort out the economy and the 8% trade deficit. So the economy is where they need to begin

To fix the UK problems we first need money and lots of it, we cannot borrow, we aren't attractive to invest in and we have an aging workforce... so we will need to start taxing those who have most... a lot more, unearned vs earned income rates are going to have to narrow, as is taxes on wealth to increase.

the EU isn't going to want another Switzerland trying to have its cake and eat it, esp in regard to FOM - a SM pre requisite - we would need to start negotiations to rejoin the EU and thats not going to happen, with a significant minority still supporting Brexit.

i also doubt playing around with tax thresholds/rates, either your ideas or Starmers Nom Dom stuff is going to solve much either, in a 2 trillion economy, a few billions just isn't enough.

Some posts on here are just too far removed from being informed

Rather than snipping from the sidelines, your party has caused this state of affairs, so whats the big idea to get us out of this mess? bare in mind, its the Tories who have increased CT to 25%.... and who took us out of the EU and hence SM/CU...

Absolutely, but we can't manage English, Maths and Science for all yet either - isn't it something like half of 16 year olds who havn't reached a "pass" mark in Maths and English? Until we address that, not much point in adding new subjects that probably half the pupils can't understand to any realistic level.

Rather than snipping from the sidelines

That’s your forte.

I’d vote for a party that mirrored @SolarPoweredHuman posts.

Why is this so low. It can’t just be down to failure of state education. I have dc in state with high maths level A levels. It is possible. Ok not everyone is a natural mathematician but some level is of maths is likely in a state school in an area with invested parents.

Nope, i ve come up with some ideas, i don't expect anyone to agree but i look at other countries that do public services etc better than us, as a way forward.

Btw had an aussie friend staying with my FiL recently, amazing how different they do things.

I suspect @SolarPoweredHuman is not a Tory.

I agree on maths etc but if you don't have enough specialist subject teachers, then what? like Dr's/Nurses, Teachers are pouring out of state sector.

Bye then. You don't sound like much of a loss.

'Consocialists'? Oh behave. 🙄

I suspect @SolarPoweredHuman is not a Tory

I couldn’t give less of a stuff if they are or not. You are fixated and always have been on people voting for one party. I try to avoid you as just not great on reasoning but sadly not always possible.

I’m looking for good policies and their posts stand out as having them.

Love posts like this...look at Europe. France riots and a huge far right influence. Germany electing far right parties and the population getting fed up of propping up the rest of Europe. Holland political collapse. Hungary fed up with the eu.. It's all currently a post covid shit show

Exactly. You literally cannot tax this group more. They have been carrying the entire country for 15 years and are already cutting hours and declining promotions because working more would mean they get to keep 10% of their income, or in some cases at the £100k threshold lose ten of thousands of pounds of net income for earning £1 more and not be able to get back to the SAME net earnings they had from a £99,999 salary until they get a payrise to £150,000. A 50% rise.

Am I very dense? I thought the additional rate threshold was 125k and it's on income above. Where is this explained?

I suspect @SolarPoweredHuman is not a Tory

I am not an anything! That's the whole point. Nobody is even proposing to do a tiny part of what can be done and needs to be done to make things better. They are all utterly useless and incompetent.

At £100k people lose their tax free allowance, tax free childcare and 30 "free" (not free at all and only 22 per week anyway...) hours of childcare. For those with children this often takes the effective tax rate to well over 100% and net pay cannot be restored to the level received at £99,999 salary until earnings hit over £150,000. It can result in an instant drop in net income of tens of thousands of pounds, for earning £1 over the threshold.

60% income tax for personal allowance withdrawal plus 2% NI plus 9% student loan even for those without children is a marginal tax rate of 71%. Who would bother?

That may be so … but I live in an EU country and at least our public transport systems work, I can see our gp the same or next day, four categories of rubbish are collected weekly, ambulances arrive in a timely manner and my dds are attending university free of charge save for accommodation and text books. Libraries are functioning, potholes are repaired and my local town council equivalent organises an annual subsidised holiday for local elderly residents to visit the sea.

Taxes may be high but society is organised for the collective benefit rather than that of the individual.

I think the EU is in for a tough time with far right rising. It won’t abate as climate change worsens. It’ll get more pronounced.

Part of me thinks RoI has it sussed right now. They won’t get the social unrest from migration and push back which is destabilising.

They’ve grabbed the low CI tax rate

They’ve had instability before so a nice change

I don’t think it’s over for us. We have a lot going for us, but it’s frustrating to watch things slide towards decline with next GE

On the greatest cons the torys have managed to pull off is convincing people earning £50-£150k that they're the rich we talk about taxing more / being the focus of wealth redistribution policies. They are not.

The people who need taxed more are the UHNW individuals who have been exploiting the masses for decades, free from any critisism or interference becuase they're protected from all attempts at redress by their brainwashed subordinates in the "high-earner" bands.

Productivity between the 80s and 2019, prior to the Covid-19 hit, rose by 87% in the UK, mean wages kept up with this but median wages only rose by 62%. There's been a 25% "decoupling” between productivity growth and median wage growth, fueled by ever increasing wealth inequality that means the majority of workers are not being fairly rewarded for their labour. That needs to change.

And before anyone tries the "if you try to tax the UHNWs they'll leave" line, this is not backed up by any evidence. Only 5% of UHNW individuals move after they've become wealthy and 84% of billionaires live in the country of their birth. People don't tend to leave once they've settler somewhere with most migration/emigration happing in the younger age bands. There are also political solutions to discouraging that from happening.

The way out of this mess is to close the gap between the top 1%-10% and everyone else. I've said this numerous times but the top 1% in the UK control 24% of all wealth, have enough private wealth to clear the national debt and still have over £1 trillion between them, that is unsustainable and that is what needs rebalanced.

Thanks @SolarPoweredHuman I see where you are coming from, it's families with DC under school age (doing very well for one to be earning £100k) which must be a pretty small group.
I suppose they effectively have a benefit trap of their own.