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Original poster

To feel angry at celebrating the NHS

587 replies

TaylorSwifting · 05/07/2023 08:42

The NHS is falling apart and today people are all full of glee at the NHS yippee 75 years today, it’s making me so angry!!!!!!!!!
My family member has been diagnosed with cancer, 2 months down the line and has had no treatment and terrible delays for tests…..still yet to see an oncologist. 2 months!!!!!!!!! Family member only has pain management because us family have begged and fought to get it. It is an utter disgrace and I had no idea how bad things were until this awful diagnosis in our own family.
We are not alone / it hasn’t been a mistake or being lost in the system by accident! Record high cancer patient delays - this is what so many people are facing. I am in utter disbelief!
I won’t be celebrating today.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Cakesandbabes · 05/07/2023 13:06

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 05/07/2023 13:05

The NHS is, and has been since its inception, one of the crowning achievements of the UK in the world, and a model that has been copied or envied by other countries.

Which countries have copied it?

Argentina maybe? Iirc they have imilar set up but might be mistaken

Wizzbangfizz · 05/07/2023 13:07

@Quveas envy of the world?! Only last week they published a study saying how the NHS was trailing behind compared with similar countries.

Happyfluffball · 05/07/2023 13:07

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 05/07/2023 12:24

What about Australia and Canada as comparisons? Australia seems to be recruiting a lot of our doctors so they must be doing something right. It's not just the weather that's attractive

Completely agree, it's annoying that the US is ALWAYS brought into the argument.

As someone who has used the healthcare system I can honestly say it's brilliant. Everything is clean and the rooms are comfortable. You get your own private room and the care the doctors and nurses give are amazing because they have better staffing ratios and are less conservative.

Happyfluffball · 05/07/2023 13:07

Happyfluffball · 05/07/2023 13:07

As someone who has used the healthcare system I can honestly say it's brilliant. Everything is clean and the rooms are comfortable. You get your own private room and the care the doctors and nurses give are amazing because they have better staffing ratios and are less conservative.

Show quote history

The US healthcare system that is.

eggsbenedict23 · 05/07/2023 13:15

How can it be the envy of the world and also underfunded?

Lacucuracha · 05/07/2023 13:17

KnickerlessParsons · 05/07/2023 08:46

Well my DH has has absolutely fantastic care and support throughout his cancer journey. Wouldn't have got better care if we'd gone privately. So many people are looking after him - we estimate his treatment and ongoing care must have cost at least £1m.

Maybe learn to read the room. OP's family member is having a terrible time.

pointythings · 05/07/2023 13:23

I would advise everyone with rose tinted dreams of other systems to look at the data. The US spends a great deal more per head of population but has worse outcomes and huge segregation by ability to pay. I think we can agree that isn't something we want to replicate.

Other European countries have systems that align better with our values, but they spend a great deal more on healthcare than we do. They also haven't spent 10 years under investing and doing nothing about demographic and infrastructure issues. I would favour reform (and I work in the NHS), but people on this thread need to realise a French or German model of the same quality would cost us all more, not less.

eggsbenedict23 · 05/07/2023 13:28

The NHS is funded on line with OECD averages.

The US system is a mess due it's partly due to their complicated rules and healthcare regulation.

The Netherlands spends a comparable level to us. Every year "record investment" is thrown in.

MH1111 · 05/07/2023 13:34

Is it underfunded?

Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 13:36

In 2022 the UK spent $5493 per capita, the OECD $5009 - this includes some lower income members. France $6517, Denmark $6279, Germany $8010 NZ 6061 Spain $4461 Australia $6596 Finland $5676 Belgium $6600"

twitter.com/nedwards_1/status/1676217117803266050?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

Nigel Edwards is CEO of the Nuffield Trust.

•	Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
•	If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
•	Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
•	Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade

SummerDuck · 05/07/2023 13:36

In my view the NHS is no longer fit for purpose and we need to be able to have a sensible conversation about the future that acknowledges the only alternative is not the US system.

It is not just about money- the NHS budget last year was over £200 billion and we are at the point where other services like schools are being starved of money to fund a failing health service.

SummerDuck · 05/07/2023 13:40

The other thing for me is the hero worship has got to stop. Yes, NHS staff are in important roles but ultimately they are doing a job. The NHS has some of the worst healthcare outcomes in the developed world.

ButterCrackers · 05/07/2023 13:43

Which countries look up to the nhs? Examples? I can’t think of any.

KnittedCardi · 05/07/2023 13:45

I've not read the whole thread, but having just watched the news, and turned it off after the umpteenth story centering on the NHS, I just cannot understand how we as a nation feel the need to "celebrate" our health case system. It hasn't been the best for a while, it is very region dependent, and the service of care you receive depends very much on your local management of GP's and Trusts. At the end of the day it is a service we all pay for (more now than ever before), and it is, just, a healthcare system.

Does any other country in the world have a special day for their health service? Do they have religious celebrations, do they bake cakes, do they sing and dance in the streets. It's just weird our (not mine) obsession with the NHS.

cwanne · 05/07/2023 13:46

SummerDuck · 05/07/2023 13:40

The other thing for me is the hero worship has got to stop. Yes, NHS staff are in important roles but ultimately they are doing a job. The NHS has some of the worst healthcare outcomes in the developed world.

Yes! And it isn't just due to money. We do not have similar cancer survival rates to other countries that spend approx the same amount on healthcare per capita as we do.

Museya15 · 05/07/2023 13:47

NoChanceYouMetalBastard · 05/07/2023 08:46

Agreed. The ridiculous NHS worship that started during the pandemic continues.

What was ridiculous about it?

Museya15 · 05/07/2023 13:49

Guess you'll have to start paying insurance when it goes ( and it's going) then you'll all be moaning about that too

eggsbenedict23 · 05/07/2023 13:50

Museya15 · 05/07/2023 13:49

Guess you'll have to start paying insurance when it goes ( and it's going) then you'll all be moaning about that too

You have to buy insurance in mainland Europe.
It's fine

How can it take over a decade to privatise it?

Badbadbunny · 05/07/2023 13:50

KnittedCardi · 05/07/2023 13:45

I've not read the whole thread, but having just watched the news, and turned it off after the umpteenth story centering on the NHS, I just cannot understand how we as a nation feel the need to "celebrate" our health case system. It hasn't been the best for a while, it is very region dependent, and the service of care you receive depends very much on your local management of GP's and Trusts. At the end of the day it is a service we all pay for (more now than ever before), and it is, just, a healthcare system.

Does any other country in the world have a special day for their health service? Do they have religious celebrations, do they bake cakes, do they sing and dance in the streets. It's just weird our (not mine) obsession with the NHS.

Has any other country had nurses dancing around with hospital beds in it's Olympic opening ceremony? No, I thought not? That was an all time low for the UK and the NHS.

JenniferBooth · 05/07/2023 13:51

We have a very very high proportion of the public on out of work benefits

Which the lockdowns contributed towards @Sweetashunni

Winnerturkeydinner · 05/07/2023 13:52

My c section , my children's stay in nicu along with the special formula they were prescribed would have cost the NHS over 500'000. I love the NHS.

eggsbenedict23 · 05/07/2023 13:53

Winnerturkeydinner · 05/07/2023 13:52

My c section , my children's stay in nicu along with the special formula they were prescribed would have cost the NHS over 500'000. I love the NHS.

You would have been fine getting the same surgery in the Netherlands

Sweetashunni · 05/07/2023 13:53

JenniferBooth · 05/07/2023 13:51

We have a very very high proportion of the public on out of work benefits

Which the lockdowns contributed towards @Sweetashunni

How?

AgnesX · 05/07/2023 13:55

I personally am very grateful for the NHS existence over the years. It's not perfect, no huge organisation is and there are geographical areas where the service leaves a lot to be desired.

That all said, it's hardly surprising, given that it's expanded beyond belief in 75 years not always with the right funding, and also used and abused by people who take no responsibility for their own health.

At some point a decision will have to made about what's important for the majority which will then make the vociferous minority very unhappy as that's what always happens until they get what they want.

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 05/07/2023 14:00

Guess you'll have to start paying insurance when it goes ( and it's going) then you'll all be moaning about that too

I'm fine with paying for insurance if it isn't too extortionate provided I get a better service. I already pay for plenty of insurances (including health) for peace of mind. I actually didn't mind Rishi Sunak's idea of paying a certain amount for a GP appointment. People in Ireland pay if they can afford it (isn't it about 50 euros which seems a lot to me but maybe not?)?