To feel angry at celebrating the NHS

[TaylorSwifting]

The NHS is falling apart and today people are all full of glee at the NHS yippee 75 years today, it’s making me so angry!!!!!!!!!
My family member has been diagnosed with cancer, 2 months down the line and has had no treatment and terrible delays for tests…..still yet to see an oncologist. 2 months!!!!!!!!! Family member only has pain management because us family have begged and fought to get it. It is an utter disgrace and I had no idea how bad things were until this awful diagnosis in our own family.
We are not alone / it hasn’t been a mistake or being lost in the system by accident! Record high cancer patient delays - this is what so many people are facing. I am in utter disbelief!
I won’t be celebrating today.

Nail on the head. Such a shame that the politicians are too spineless to address the NHS problems properly. The answer is always "throw more money at it", which is part of the solution, but not without fundamental changes throughout.

Trouble is also that Joe Public can't be trusted to vote intelligently. The national ID card system was scrapped because it was unpopular, likewise John Prescott's regional assemblies (which to be honest was batshit!), then we had the libdem's hard fought voting referendum that the public rejected, though it could have been the start of electoral reform, then Brexit - say no more, then Boris getting re-elected - say no more.

Joe Public isn't capable of researching, logical thought, and voting based on facts rather than image or habit - the media play to that, and as such, so do politicians. Reform of the NHS is unpopular so it will never happen!

Of course older people are more frequent users of health services. That comes with age. Those older people have also paid into the system through their taxes.

And the fact that older people are getting treatment isn't evidence that younger people aren't. That isn't how data works.

How many people do you think are contributors, and have actually covered the cost of their birth to the NHS never mind anything else and I would include myself in that number.

It just doesn’t work like a bank account where you put money in and you withdraw it out when you need it. The numbers just do not stack up.

@3BSHKATS I'm aware, don't be patronising.

But the system is as it is and until we decide to change it, we don't get to deny its use to anyone except for clinical reasons. Anything else is Logan's Run territory.

As I've said, I wouldn't be opposed to an insurance based system like the ones that operate in France, Germany and the Netherlands - as long as, like those systems, there was provision for people who are older or have long term, chronic or incurable conditions to keep their premiums affordable. Until we make that move, we make our treatment decisions on clinical grounds only.

Just a question - since you favour denying people treatment based on age, do you also favour denying treatments to people with learning difficulties or physical disabilities? After all it's distinctly likely that as a group, they aren't paying their way.

@pointythings no purely on the basis that anybody with a learning or physical hasn’t had the opportunity to acquire the necessary means to pay for the insurance policy. I’m not proposing that if an 80-year-old gets hit by a bus, they aren’t scraped up off the floor and patched up. I think we just need to draw the line with regards to quality of life.

Anybody that works in the health service or the care system has a vested interest in keeping these old people going whether it’s in their best interests or not. So I wouldnt expect anything other than faked horror from them.

Anybody that works in the health service or the care system has a vested interest in keeping these old people going whether it’s in their best interests or not.

Oh don't be silly. Given the length of waiting lists in the NHS and the fact that NHS Trusts can't recruit or retain staff, this isn't about people who are worried they might not have a job if they don't treat old people. That's the most ridiculous thing you've posted on this thread so far.

purely on the basis that anybody with a learning or physical hasn’t had the opportunity to acquire the necessary means to pay for the insurance policy.

Nor have older people with the worst health outcomes. Life expectancy and healthy life expectancy are hugely affected by affluence or the lack of it. People from deprived areas have many fewer years on both measures. Those people are those with a life time of low incomes. So essentially what you’re saying is we treat people according to wealth, with those whose health is worst getting least treatment.

I meant emotional attachment to the patience, but it’s mildly amusing that that’s how you interpreted it. They might run out of warm bodies.

OK, so now you're saying wanting to get people well is wrong and you should put a calculator where your heart is? You just get better and better.

Anyway, I know too many clinicians to think that is how they operate.

No you didn’t. We all know health care professionals don’t have an emotional attachment to their patients. There was only one way to interpret it and backtracking constantly doesn’t change it.

This is not the fault of the NHS as a concept it's the fault of a government who systematically underfund it and are selling parts of it off with a view to further privatisation
The NHS as a concept certainly should be celebrated. It is a wonderful concept and we need to fight to keep it alive. We need to vote in governments that will prioritise it and keep it free at point of access.
Our NHS is still world's ahead of the situation in many other countries.
Is it perfect? No. But it's very much worth celebrating as a concept because it has saved countless lives and improved quality of life in the UK over the years. We should not abandon it

Yep. Prior to the NHS men, women and children were needlessly dying because paying Dr's fees wasn't an option.

There are obvious problems with the NHS now but the fact that no-one in this country needs to worry about paying for an ambulance and hospital treatment when they're suffering a medical emergency should be celebrated.

The average response time for people requiring an ambulance for a stroke, severe burns or chest pain was 93 minutes, five times the operation target of 18 minutes.

Yes, celebrate it's "free" .

Would you prefer not having it at all?

Well yes, previously it wasn't an option and now it is.

I made it clear there are numerous problems with the NHS now but unless you're coming up with scenarios where people are paying for the cost of an ambulance; it's likely a very good thing that everyone has access to the service and not have to worry about paying for it.

Unless you disagree and think we should have a health service charged at the point of use as it was before the NHS? .

Many people basically don't have it at all. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/09/more-than-500-deaths-in-england-last-year-after-long-ambulance-wait

https://news.sky.com/story/patients-waited-up-to-two-and-a-half-days-for-ambulances-and-40-hours-to-get-into-a-e-12859720#:~:text=Patients%20have%20been%20left%20waiting,for%2040%20hours%20outside%20A%26E.

But yeah. At least it's free.

I bet people would complain if their free croissant was bit stale, but happily use "but it's free so shush" at an important service.
Not saying it should be paid at point of use for emergency, just that there might not be that much to celebrate at current state.

The alternative is that people pay for it in a private system.

Many people would be unable to.

So? In all of the NHS limitations and imperfections which are many, it is still the fact that people in the UK do not have to worry about their ability to pay when seeking and accessing healthcare.

Many countries do not have that in place.

Your croissant analogy is a silly straw man.

Yes, you are right. It's silly to point out that we complain about silly things when free but not important ones. It's also silly to think that things should work better.

It's free, the fact that it's bit shit (quite shit in places) is totally secondary and unimportant, because 75 years ago people didn't have it and some places pay for it (not all).
It's grand.

People will have to atart paying sooner or later for private if they actually want to get to that hospital in many areas, but yeah. At least it's free

Don't be a twat. Nobody said in this thread that people shouldn't complain about the inadequacies of the NHS. Everyone is aware.

You keep attempting to build straw man arguments and failing. Because you're being ridiculous.

It is still worthy of celebration that no-one in the UK needs to worry about paying for their healthcare.

That we as citizens don't have to worry about paying for calling an ambulance, or having cancer, or being neurodiverse or mentally ill or being disabled.

The strain on the NHS would not have been anticipated at the time of it's conception but it is what it is now.

Shes not being a twat. She is merely pointing out that there is no point something being free if its not accessible.
And name calling usually means you have lost the argument

So sorry for your experience.

despite the headlines, our family has been incredibly well served by the NHS and I think the people who work within it are well worth celebrating.

Nope. It's still free.

Please tell me about any cases anywhere in the UK where anyone has been charged for their healthcare?

Hmm i will try to tell myself its free when i next sit on the phone in a queue to my GP surgery while my PAYG credit goes further and further down.

I've never understood the faux awe at the NHS.

Let's just say it, it's pretty shocking. Something as simple as a broken ankle can leave you 20+hours in a and e.

GP appointments are like goldust, even if you do have the patience to wait 45+minutes on the phone every morning to finally get through and be told "no appointments left".

I've never understood clapping and fawning over people for the job/career they chose to do. Why don't we seem to get clapping for the CPS or other civil servant jobs.

I genuinely can't wait for actual private medical insurance to become available in the UK. Yeah we will end up with a 2 tier system of NHS hospitals and patients and Private hospitals and patients, but healthcare provision for many will improve.

NHS Wales is absolutely dire, people are dying of neglect. It's just piss poor. Welsh hospitals are nothing short of death traps. They are to be avoided at all costs.

I genuinely can't wait for actual private medical insurance to become available in the UK. Yeah we will end up with a 2 tier system of NHS hospitals and patients and Private hospitals and patients, but healthcare provision for many will improve”

So the others, for whom it will become worse, don’t matter as long as you’re happy?