To feel angry at celebrating the NHS

[TaylorSwifting]

The NHS is falling apart and today people are all full of glee at the NHS yippee 75 years today, it’s making me so angry!!!!!!!!!
My family member has been diagnosed with cancer, 2 months down the line and has had no treatment and terrible delays for tests…..still yet to see an oncologist. 2 months!!!!!!!!! Family member only has pain management because us family have begged and fought to get it. It is an utter disgrace and I had no idea how bad things were until this awful diagnosis in our own family.
We are not alone / it hasn’t been a mistake or being lost in the system by accident! Record high cancer patient delays - this is what so many people are facing. I am in utter disbelief!
I won’t be celebrating today.

No but our lifestyles are amongst the worst.

We also don't have assisted dying when a lot of other countries do.

My DM got breast cancer. She had world class free healthcare from the NHS, including being given a drug that costs £60k a year, but increases long term survival. Cancer came back, and again she was treated by the NHS til well.

US DMIL - got breast cancer, and despite having the 'best' health care coverage, incl coverage that came from having a government job, paid $247k towards her own treatment. That was a fraction of the 'cost' charged to her insurance.
They're still paying off the debt. She's now not insured if the cancer comes back. Basically - if the breast cancer re-occurs, they're fucked.

DFIL - also in US was treated for prostrate cancer, they paid only about $25k towards that cost out of pocket - BUT his insurance ( military, government service for45 years - so gain, the 'best') will NOT cover any further treatment.

If either cancer comes back - they'll need to sell their house for treatment, though it's doubtful that it will even cover the cost.

I've used US hospitals - they treatment, the equipment, the training, the staff is no different to a modern UK hospital. My DD spent the night in a kids hospital - the break down of the bill included the $ for the TAPE they used to stick tubes to her arm. Every single bit of tape, tubing, material no matter how miniscule had a charge.

Every time any of our US family talks about something medical ( which seems to be ALL the time because someone always has a story) I thank god for the NHS 100 times over.

The worship got worse during the pandemic but it was already there. I've lived in the UK for a long time but come from an EU country where, similar to the UK ,the health system was rebuilt after WW2. Where I come from health is funded in parts by the State and people contributing to an insurance system (nowhere as costly as the US insurance system). The difference is that people in my country just expect good service and do not keep going on about what the situation was pre-war. Nurses are not seen as "angels",they are just people doing a job. The problem with the NHS (IMO) is that it has been sold as "free" (which it is not) and therefore,people should be just grateful for what they have got.

Previous post was a reply to FlamThrowingNinja 🤦‍♀️

' Nurses are not seen as "angels",they are just people doing a job.'

I'm going to call bullshit on that - I've lived in many, many countries and nurses are definitely always seen in a super positive light. Probably because they work the hours of doctors but are paid a lot less.
It's seen as a vocation, a bit like teaching. Nursing can be very well paid, esp in speciality nursing, but no-one every becomes a nurse for the money. Same a teachers.

I don’t think any party can make it better. Not while providing everything else on the long list of services the public needs. We are not the wealthy country we once were, although we seem to be having a very hard time coming to terms with that.

I'm really sorry to hear of your experience OP. It must be extremely stressful and frightening.
In contrast we have always had excellent care from the NHS. I had suspected cancer and the scans and meeting with a consultant all happened within 3 days. My surgery happened less than a month later. I had excellent follow up care, regular scans and blood tests plus several sessions with a counsellor.
My 83 year old dad has also received brilliant care for his many ailments (including cancer and heart problems).
Just a couple of weeks ago my son had surgery for a urological problem. Again this was dealt with quickly and efficiently. The doctors and nurses were so caring towards my son who was very nervous.
I really think the NHS is wonderful - It's obviously struggling (from what I've heard reported) but I don't think that's a reason not to celebrate all the lives they've saved and the people they've helped.

The worship got worse during the pandemic but it was already there. I've lived in the UK for a long time but come from an EU country where, similar to the UK ,the health system was rebuilt after WW2. Where I come from health is funded in parts by the State and people contributing to an insurance system (nowhere as costly as the US insurance system). The difference is that people in my country just expect good service and do not keep going on about what the situation was pre-war. Nurses are not seen as "angels",they are just people doing a job. The problem with the NHS (IMO) is that it has been sold as "free" (which it is not) and therefore,people should be just grateful for what they have got.

I think people always misuse/take things for granted when it appears to be free. I've seen loads of threads on here saying if you want to get rid of an item, always ask for payment no matter how small to deter CFrs. If people had to (for e.g.) pay towards prescriptions they might actually consider whether they really need paracetamol on prescription.

Yy to this. Our insurance is income based.
Medical staff gets respect or hard job by not fawning like here. They also get criticism when things are going wrong.

NHS might be on its knees but I’m eternally grateful I can access free health care. I’d not be able to afford to pay the kinds of bills they get in america, it would bankrupt the entirety of those already in poverty.

But you wouldn’t have to pay American bills would you? Why is the USA comparison constantly wheeled out when the majority of civilised countries have an insurance model and don’t have members of the public amputating their own limbs?

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees have you considered that those getting paracetamol on prescription might genuinely not be able to afford to buy it themselves? Paracetamol costs 39p per box providing you’re not going for fancy brand names that do the exact same job as your bog standard non branded pills. Anyone that’s unable to afford 39p will get it on prescription. I have before, didn’t even have 2p to contribute towards it. That’s not taking the piss, that’s being genuinely in need and not having any option but to get it for free from minor ailments.

Maybe other countries should make their versions of Grace Anatomy to get other systems out in front of general public elswehere....

Seriously, probably because mkst famous medical dramas are US, I guess

But you wouldn’t have to pay American bills would you? Why is the USA comparison constantly wheeled out when the majority of civilised countries have an insurance model and don’t have members of the public amputating their own limbs?

God knows but I too find it really tedious and it's a distraction - always bringing the USA into the argument means things will never change.

@Sweetashunni because the USA is the only other countries health system I have knowledge of, that’s why. If you’d like to come educate us on a better model by all means please do, but don’t go shitting on other peoples opinions just because you’re unable to grasp the concept that not everyone has the same knowledge.

There is info right on this thread talking about other options..

Also we most closely model the USA political and socioeconomic structures. We take the majority of influence from the USA. Our children are combining American speech with British speech. The EU has very little influence anymore and the majority of countries within the EU are dismissed as party locations and not to be taken seriously. Not saying I agree with it but you can’t end up annoyed that people draw comparisons from the USA when our culture aligns far more with them than it does with Europe.

But all the knowledge is available to you. Just search any country you like and ‘healthcare system’ on Google and it will give you an overview of how most people in developed countries organise their healthcare.

I don’t think challenging you is ‘shitting’ on your opinion, you’ve posted on a debate thread and should expect that people will reply and challenge what you write??

have you considered that those getting paracetamol on prescription might genuinely not be able to afford to buy it themselves? Paracetamol costs 39p per box providing you’re not going for fancy brand names that do the exact same job as your bog standard non branded pills. Anyone that’s unable to afford 39p will get it on prescription. I have before, didn’t even have 2p to contribute towards it. That’s not taking the piss, that’s being genuinely in need and not having any option but to get it for free from minor ailments.

But life costs money and do we want NHS money to be spent on life saving treatment or something that can be bought cheaply over the counter? Everybody will have different priorities. The NHS cannot afford every single treatment in life. As a country we need to have a grown up conversation about what we want our taxes to be spent on but we won't, because no political party wants to open that can of worms.

I feel the same @TaylorSwifting

Just today, I've had a voicemail left by our teens dentist.

I say my teens because firstly my DH was deregistered by them because he hadn't been seen in 6 months. In 2020. When they closed due to Covid and he was shielding.
Then I was deregistered because I queried this decision which they said "broke their terms".

My teens still have places but my DD was fine about dentists until this new one who is utterly rude. As we've found it incredibly hard to find a dentist with places for DenPlan patients we've told them to grin and bear it.

They went Friday and we waited over an hour over the appointment time. They were so nervous as they really hate going but when I asked if we could rearrange was told that would be classed as "did not attend" and we would be fined £50 and DD would be deregged.

They were told they need a filling, but the dentists called them variously "dirty" and "lazy" poking them in the gym with the scraper tool. I told her to please not call my DD that, she's neither dirty nor lazy and she was referring to teeth which overlap and can't be cleaned properly as a result. We said we asked about a brace and she said it wasn't needed.

She said it now was but as DD is "a dirty girl" she won't refer her. DD was in tears and so I asked to arrange the filling for a later date. DD has sensory issues so would have had kittens having a filling after the upset.

She moaned about this but agreed saying it needed doing asap.

Booked an appointment for 20th July

They've now demanded to change this. For 24th August.

DD has pain in their jaw. They said a private patient needs the appointment and are "prioritised".

Also, 24th August is results day and they want her in at 9.30 for 45 minutes, she has an appointment with sixth form at 9.50. The woman I spoke to got annoyed and said I was being "awkward" and can't we rearrange!

They've now said end of September but subject to change if a private patient requests.

I remember when Dentists were NHS and plentiful. Polite, kind and happy to help

Now they're mine grabbing arseholes who treat non-private patients like utter shit.

So no, I won't e celebrating something the current government is deliberately screwing over and leaving people who can't go private with crap, non-existent care.

@Sweetashunni why would I do that? I have ADHD, concentration on information alongside research on a topic I’ve no interest in means that it’d be nothing more than a pointless and frustrating task resulting in no information actually being absorbed. Again with the inability to understand that people are different and some might be perfectly happy with the NHS and have no desire to change to a different health care model.

Also we most closely model the USA political and socioeconomic structures.

We really really don't.

I agree OP, the delays in cancer care for my friends in the UK are terrible, even just a few weeks can make such a difference with aggressive cancers, compared to those abroad. We just have to accept it as we have no choice. Some cancer pathways, it doesn't make that much difference (like my husbands) and so his care was great. For time-critical pathways, the NHS isn't good enough.

Let’s rephrase that, then, the Tories would like to. And I think a lot of people would like to as well. I speak to a lot of business owners who do business in the US and the bloody love it. I don’t think it will be long.

We forget how the USA leads the world in innovation for medical technology