To feel angry at celebrating the NHS

[TaylorSwifting]

The NHS is falling apart and today people are all full of glee at the NHS yippee 75 years today, it’s making me so angry!!!!!!!!!
My family member has been diagnosed with cancer, 2 months down the line and has had no treatment and terrible delays for tests…..still yet to see an oncologist. 2 months!!!!!!!!! Family member only has pain management because us family have begged and fought to get it. It is an utter disgrace and I had no idea how bad things were until this awful diagnosis in our own family.
We are not alone / it hasn’t been a mistake or being lost in the system by accident! Record high cancer patient delays - this is what so many people are facing. I am in utter disbelief!
I won’t be celebrating today.

Im not a conservative voter, I will never be a conservative voter, but nothing has happened over the last 15 years to convince me there is a purposeful aim rather than just neglect. To be honest I don’t think they have the competence to carry out a long term heist.

I assumed the handing out of contracts for certain services to private companies was done by local health authorities not by MPs.

It’s a legal requirement under the 2012 Health Act. Which is the most shit piece of health legislation ever approved by Parliament. Hopefully the next government will make repealing that section of it a priority.

No political party will ever get elected with a policy of reforming the NHS - it is a sacred cow.

but nothing has happened over the last 15 years to convince me there is a purposeful aim rather than just neglect. To be honest I don’t think they have the competence to carry out a long term heist.

Yes I agree, I think most MPs are pretty shit and incompetent really.

It’s a legal requirement under the 2012 Health Act. Which is the most shit piece of health legislation ever approved by Parliament. Hopefully the next government will make repealing that section of it a priority.

Andrew Lansley was a fucking disgrace and was rewarded for his incompetence and (IMO absolute dedication to feathering his own nest) with a peerage. One of the (many) reasons why I despise the HoLs in its current form.

This. The way the Tories have weaponised this is disgusting..and the whole country has swallowed it. We've got more government debt under this government than we ever had in the Blair/Brown years.

"“But we seem to be paying an extraordinary amount of money to people who literally just exist.”

Curious about this. What type of person just exists and shouldn’t get free healthcare?"

Also this. It's my belief that the likes of Johnson and Rees Mogg have nothing but contempt for us plebs, the majority of the population and couldn't care less about the NHS as they'll never have to use it (the Grenfell victims were basically stupid and 'let the bodies pile high' etc)
But some of the comments on this thread have sailed pretty close to this attitude. Which lives are worth less than others to these people? At what age do we just let people die?

Andrew Lansley was a fucking disgrace and was rewarded for his incompetence and (IMO absolute dedication to feathering his own nest) with a peerage. One of the (many) reasons why I despise the HoLs in its current form.

Yes, millions down the drain in dismantling PCTs, paying out six figure redundancies, re-hiring the staff again in new commissioning organisations filled with administrators and beurocrats undergoing pointless tendering exercises and creating the new job of contract management. All in the name of separating the commissioner from the provider and opening up the market to private providers.

Exactly this. I love what the NHS could and should be. None of us are going to work every day for a low salary, high stress and long hours to let people down, but there are no beds, no funds and more and more staff are leaving, so we are all very, very tired. I have spent the last year covering 4 full time jobs at once.

The government seem to think that we can carry on indefinitely on clapping and badges and no investment, and the stupid thing is that because we don't want to put people at risk, we keep trying. There's little to celebrate, but I am still proud to work for the NHS and have (ever decreasing) hope that we might be able to turn things around.

But some of the comments on this thread have sailed pretty close to this attitude. Which lives are worth less than others to these people? At what age do we just let people die?

I think the current system means that loads of people are dying early, whether it's from delayed cancer treatment or long term complications from delays to surgery for hip/knee replacements/heart surgery etc. I think the NHS in its current form just isn't fit for purpose but I don't see any political party having the appetite to change it. Very depressing really.

I think our attachment to and worship of the NHS is stopping us from considering better options.

People want an insurance based healthcare system, like every other European country. Because people know that their friends and relatives in Germany, France, Spain, Sweden etc have much better healthcare experiences than we do here.

I think our attachment to and worship of the NHS is stopping us from considering better options.

I certainly don't think it helps.

But every thread like this mentions the US as the obvious alternative and I think a lot of the British public don't think that deeply and would assume the same thing if an insurance system was mentioned. So any party that wanted to consider serious reform would never win an election.

Clearly no understanding as to how the tax system works. I absolutely guarantee even working from the age of 14 he has not put in more than he’s taken out. As for his multiple trips to the hospital no I’m sorry just no.

There has to come a point in everyone’s life where people are made comfortable but that’s it you’re allowed to flipping die. It’s a natural part of the process it’s going to happen to all of us. No matter how long we try and prolong at we’re gonna get there in the end.
And if you want to try and prolong it, it should be at your expense. I actually would draw a line in the sand and pick an age beyond which certain treatments are offered.

but given your comments aren’t even related to the NHS, I’m not actually sure why you think it’s relevant to comment.

People want an insurance based healthcare system, like every other European country. Because people know that their friends and relatives in Germany, France, Spain, Sweden etc have much better healthcare experiences than we do here.

This x 1000

Looking at other European systems, all seem to require patients to pay for certain services but in the UK I get the impression that that would be considered sacrilege.

'It can be a bit crap' 'But at least its free!'

Jesus. That’s really fucking chilling. I really hope it’s grandstanding and you don’t really think that.

Why is it ? We are all going to die. I’ve seen dementia patients who don’t know where they are. They don’t know who they family are. They don’t understand the procedures being done to them. Can you remember as a child having medical intervention basically against your will, but for your own good because you’re a child? I do, remember having a general anaesthetic to fix my teeth when I was six, and I remember that horrendous feeling of being completely powerless over the adults that are holding me down to insert iv’s etc. Imagine that as an adult it’s literally assault. And yeah, it happens every day in the interests of keeping them alive.
Why ?

I actually would draw a line in the sand and pick an age beyond which certain treatments are offered.

I disagree with this, some 80 year olds are far more more healthy than other 80 year olds, why should they be penalised because of their age?

But I agree the situation is different with advanced dementia patients. DH has agreed with both doctors and his DM's care home that she will not be admitted to hospital unless she breaks a bone or something because when she was admitted with an infection she was extremely distressed and refused to eat or drink.

Whereas someone else I know was very angry about the fact that their mother (with advanced dementia to the point that she didn't recognise anyone) was not taken to hospital when she developed an infection. Quite often I think it's the relatives that want to prolong life rather than the elderly person themself.

Quite often I think it's the relatives that want to prolong life rather than the elderly person themself.

Spot on. My mum had dementia and lived to be 97. For me all bets were off after she developed dementia but she was 90 before she displayed any symptoms. On the other hand, my dad was 99 when he died and was completely lucid to his last breath, I’d have fought like a tiger for him to be treated for any condition.

So what you suggest is to let six year old die from tooth abscesses because they don’t want treatment against their will? When you have seen a child or adult die then come back to me.

No quite the opposite. We save the children by making sure there’s enough money in the pot.

The adults that are having treatment against their will at great expense, are allowed to slip away. As for seeing an adult die. 40 of them would’ve died between your post on mine worldwide. Go and watch the Lion King. You obviously need a little bit of insight into the Circle of life.

@Catpuss66 you deliberately twisting, what @3BSHKATS says is 'imagine that as an adult'.

I agree with the post, there should be a point where the patient or their next or kin can decide or be guided to a pathway where the person is allowed to die with dignity where their quality of life is so impacted that continuing treatments and interventions is no longer of benefit.
It's not as clear as everyone over X age is denied treatment of course some fare better but having seen elderly patients with no quality of life, no dignity but having their lives prolonged it's not in their best interests. Fgs when my cat was desperately ill, not eating and in pain she was pts in a very kind and dignified way with me holding her. Yet I have to watch my DGM die slowly in awful pain, unable to eat or drink, incontinent, hallucinating and terrified because she can't communicate what she is seeing- unrecognisable from the proud, independent woman she has always been, not even able to take the most basic care of herself.

Yes, having seen both my parents kept alive, against their wishes, there should be an option to be helped to die.

NHS have been amazing in my op and my brothers cancer treatment.
I've recently spent a lot at a vet for my cat and it made me even more appreciative of how much things cost, even just a scan.. and that we get them for free. I'd hate to live in America, we ARE lucky.

It's not free.

You know what I mean, don't be obtuse.

You’re misinformed. US federal law has forbidden health insurers from denying coverage, limiting benefits, or charging more due to pre-existing conditions since 2014 due to the ACA. That’s nearly a decade gone.