To feel angry at celebrating the NHS

[TaylorSwifting]

The NHS is falling apart and today people are all full of glee at the NHS yippee 75 years today, it’s making me so angry!!!!!!!!!
My family member has been diagnosed with cancer, 2 months down the line and has had no treatment and terrible delays for tests…..still yet to see an oncologist. 2 months!!!!!!!!! Family member only has pain management because us family have begged and fought to get it. It is an utter disgrace and I had no idea how bad things were until this awful diagnosis in our own family.
We are not alone / it hasn’t been a mistake or being lost in the system by accident! Record high cancer patient delays - this is what so many people are facing. I am in utter disbelief!
I won’t be celebrating today.

You are kind of proving my point that all criticism is immediately dismissed as ignorant or right wing

Another conspiracy theorist.

So I think it just defies reality to say that there aren’t problems with governance, accountability and how whistleblowers are dealt with in the NHS. The litany of scandals show problems in these areas again and again. But it is untrue to say these problems are not found in the private sector. They are and if anything they can be worse. The case of Ian Paterson who pursued his destructive career in both sectors is instructive.
some of these problems are problems within the culture of the medical and nursing professions and abolishing the NHS won’t cure them.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/revealed-the-links-between-tory-mps-and-the-people-profiting-from-nhs-privatisation-213827/

We nearly sold ourselves down the river with the post-Brexit US trade deal…
the pressure is still there and is still
very, strong.

and when tories can personally profit as well can we trust them to do the right thing……

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-will-a-trump-trade-deal-lead-to-the-privatisation-of-the-nhs

The trust I worked in until recently had a band 7 'ward manager' and several band 6 sisters. That was the norm for every ward.

This is why it was so encouraging when Wes Streeting was talking about reform earlier in his time as shadow health secretary. It's probably only with a Labour government that we can have a proper conversation about structural change. However, he seems to have been brought back to heel by Starmer so I'm not hopeful.

The stories do not have and never have had any plans to “sell” the NHS to anyone, and nothing you have posted establishes they do. they have had 13 years in power to do it if they wanted!
as for the US trade deal, having combed through all the UK government publications on this at the time, I can confirm that selling it to trump was definitely not on the menu.

That should be the Tories of course.

Obviously Trump was talking out of turn.

'Speaking at a joint press conference, US President Donald Trump said the National Health Service would form part of negotiations over a possible future trade deal between the UK and US.
"When you're dealing in trade, everything is on the table," he said.
The president's comments come after the US ambassador to the UK, Woody Johnson, told the BBC's Marr programme that the United States would seek business access to the NHS as part of trade negotiations after Brexit.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-48516196

It pharma prices that they'd really want to get their hands on.

@AgathaSpencerGregson Not sure why you are using the word ‘sell’. What is on the cards is insidious privatisation, contract by contract…

Personally I dont want politicians anywhere near decisions over the NHS.
Its their short termist policies that have driven it in to the ground in the first place.
Id be interested for health economists to trawl countries for options and provide that sort of information. No donors. No backroom deals. No 5 year plans.

If we’re taking the pronouncements of trump as proof of what Tory policy is or was, then I am afraid we have lost our minds.

@AgathaSpencerGregson
youll be saying the government isn’t systemically defunding and dismantling the bbc with support from the right wing media next. Tut these conspiracy theorists.

I remember when the Conservatives were pretty keen for a US trade deal - they needed the boost post Brexit. And it would be a huge mistake or just plain dumb to overlook the influence US Pharma companies have within US politics.

"If the United States can get a provision that allows it to influence UK drug prices into a trade deal with the United Kingdom, then, in theory,* *drug prices around the world could rise.
“The UK system is a benchmark in all sorts of ways. That might be specific decisions on pricing or whether it allows a drug to be used in the NHS,” says Mark Dayan, a policy analyst at Nuffield Trust, another health think tank. “Decisions made in the UK will be noticed internationally and could affect how decisions are made in other countries.”
Getting a sweet deal with the United Kingdom would provide another boost for both the drug lobby and US trade negotiators: it would set a precedent for any future US trade deals with other countries."

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/06/business/nhs-trump-trade-drugs-analysis-intl-ge19/index.html

When you’ve found some actual evidence that it’s Tory policy to privatise the NHS and sell it to “the US” (who within the US?), you let me know.
til then I’ll keep working on those tinfoil hats.

@AgathaSpencerGregson how
about you stop straw manning (continuing to use the word ‘sell’).

I was simply pointing out what was in the US interests in any UK US trade deal.

It's not about selling the NHS. Just running it down and then giving access.

Far more complex and insidious than simply selling it.

This makes sense. We need to have a serious discussion about different systems and the trade offs.

@PrincessTigger
oh I missed your glorious last post. I have a list of about 50 things I can criticise about the NHS. Does that make me ignorant and right wing?

so you think that the fact that US pharmacy companies have an interest in the UK market is evidence that the Tories want to run the NHS down “insidiously”??
okaaaayyyy

Apparently so.

"the Tories want to run the NHS down “insidiously”??
okaaaayyyy"

A decade of underfunding infrastructure, estates, IT and salaries and failing to provide a funded workforce plan (despite persistent pleas from the Health Select Committee), ignoring retention issues and failing to provide comprehensive Social Care plan - one of the key means to lift pressures on the NHS - doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, no.

I don’t believe you. The NHS has 40,000 nursing vacancies, even when it didn’t that level of over staffing was unheard of.

Personally I dont want politicians anywhere near decisions over the NHS.
Its their short termist policies that have driven it in to the ground in the first place.
Id be interested for health economists to trawl countries for options and provide that sort of information. No donors. No backroom deals. No 5 year plans.

I agree with that. But I don't believe that there is a plan by the Tories to privatise by stealth or otherwise. I assumed the handing out of contracts for certain services to private companies was done by local health authorities not by MPs. And the public service industry is notoriously shit at negotiating a good deal for taxpayers (see PFI deals for hospitals where companies can charge £100 for going in to change a lightbulb).