To ask ds17 to consider therapy worh my now ex?

[Outoftheblues]

Totally outing situation but I am prepared for honest responses. Sorry if it’s long but I want to try and give full details.
this week my partner of 15 years was physical with my ds17.
partner and ds initially had a great relationship, ds’s biological father has never been involved and partner has raised him since he was very young. We have a further ds10 together. Throughout ds17’s teen years their relationship became more strained. About 90% of the time they got along fine but they would occasionally argue and disagree. This would lead to raised voices and arguments but nothing serious. This weekend me and ds were talking and it became a little heated, nothing huge but ds raised his voice when he was unhappy with something I said, if he had given me time to finish he would have realised I didn’t mean anything and it was really a misunderstanding. Partner was in the living room, heard his raised voice and shouted through that he was fed up of him shouting and being rude and to piss off out the house (ds17 was in the porch as we were about to go out). Ds responded by telling partner to fuck off so partner charged from the living room and grabbed hold of ds. It all happened so fast that I can’t say exactly what he was trying to do, could have been to hit him, Grab him and physically throw him out the house or something else. Ds grabbed him back and they scuffled for a second or two before they both listened to me to stop and backed away from each other.
I immediately told partner to pack his stuff and leave, he didn’t argue or try to apologise for anything, took some things and has gone to his parents house.
it’s been 2 days now, my ds10 is heartbroken, so am I, ds17 has said he is fine but wants nothing further to do with him. Apart from speaking about ds10 and arrangements for him me and partner haven’t had contact. Partner has not contacted or spoken to ds17 at all.
I have today wondered whether this can be repaired. I want to say my loyalties lie with ds17, and in most ways they do but I am now also thinking of me and ds10 and our lives too. Which brings me to my question: would it be completely unreasonable of me to speak to ds17 and ask him whether there is a way forward from this. I am not thinking we forget about it and move partner back in but maybe therapy could be an option. For ds17 it could maybe help him figure out why he jumps to shouting and swearing at people so quickly and different ways to tackle that. Partner could look at why he reacted the way he did and how to do things differently. I’m sure partner if here to speak for himself would maybe say I enable ds by pandering to him and not doing anything about his behaviour when it happens and need to change how I react.
I keep thinking that ds is approaching adulthood, he will soon be going to uni or full time work and probably moving to a place of his own and although it feels completely selfish of me I think that when he does that I will then be single when we could try and work things out.
their relationship will probably never be the same but maybe it could be something rather than nothing
any advice, I am happy to be told I shouldn’t even consider it but please try to think what you would do if apart from this one incident, life had been good the majority of the time

thanks again if you got through that, I know it was very long

I think a lot of men would get to the end of their tether with a 17yr old shouting at their mum like that whether they were biological or step. I don't think this is irreparable tbh. Your 17yr old should not be shouting at you.

Think therapy is a fair response over splitting up your entire family to one incident that could have been handled better personally

Essentially after 15 years he has raised DS

He is also raising your second child

If a good man had a moment with a 17 year old disrespecting him who he'd raised without faults for 15 years, I believe therapy is sensible rather than just ending it

Thank you for responding. I agree he shouldn’t shout and I will stress this he has not been raised in a turbulent home. Me and partner have raised him together since he was a toddler, we get along well, don’t shout or swear at each other at all. In fact we honestly have rarely argued although have had disagreements at times. Home life is really very stable apart from when ds has these instances. He does not like to be told what to do or feeling someone os being unfair to him and it’s almost like a switch flips and it’s then hard to reason with him but it is rare that it happens. He went all the way through school without any issues, I think he had one detention his whole school life, he is now in college doing a levels and has a job so for the most part he is great

It wasn't just shouting though was it, DP grabbed him? I'm shocked people think therapy is the way forward here. What if next time DP goes for the 10 year old?

So he is a bit spoilt then OP? No judgement, he sounds like he rules the roost with avoiding doing things he doesn't want to do by getting angry. Your partner and other childs dad, who has raised him for 15yrs had a moment about this behaviour, and now what, your younger child doesn't get their dad FT anymore? Does this not sound bonkers to you?

I'm not even sure about therapy. They sound like they need their heads clattering together. Partner needs to moderate his feelings and calm himself down. Your son needs to learn not to run his mouth when he's upset. Tell them to sit down, talk and sort it out like gentlemen.

@dancinginthesky thank you, I honestly didn’t know if it was the grief making me think it was possible and people would say, he was physical with your son you should never consider it but it really is destroying everyone’s lives not just ds’s so I think if there is a possibility of repairing it we should try,
this is all speculation as I need to speak to ds and then partner. I believe partner would agree, I can’t imagine he wants this to be the end but ds I am unsure about. He can be stubborn enough that he might refuse. I think I will speak to him first this evening when we are alone (ds10 is here at the minute but going with his dad for the night) and stress how although partner was really wrong to do what he did there is a bigger picture to potentially look at

I agree with this tbh. From what you said and given DS's age, I think seeing this as immediate relationship ending territory is a bit of an overreaction.

He has raised DS since he was 2 - is it wide of the mark to say he is really his dad? Does your son call him dad?
reason I ask is that whatever they may say or do in anger, it seems likely that they are emotionally invested in each other. That makes it more important to try and find a route back from this difficult place.

And your partner also needs to manage anger better. I know a teen can be infuriating but we have to be the adults and keep control. If he can’t do that it’s in his own interest to get help.

@Crumbcatcher I honestly don’t think partner would although ds10 is young, the teenage years are very different so I see what you’re saying. There has never been any kind of violence, none at all to anyone from either him or me.
A raised voice is rare in this house. We generally all get along so well
@CatsSnore spoilt, no I don’t think so and it’s not that he tries to avoid things as in doing stuff it’s more when he feels someone isn’t listening to what he wants to say or isn’t giving him the chance to speak
I am guilty of interrupting people, it’s a bed habit and I know I do it but sometimes it happens. He has just ordered some new trainers, they were not cheap so we gave him some money towards them and he paid the extra out of his own money. They haven’t come and he asked me what it meant if it said exception when he checked them, I interrupted and asked if he had ordered from a regular company or if he had potentially been scammed, this caused him to lose his temper. He said partner had asked him the same, he had told me previously they were from Nike and did I think he was stupid. I was just trying to check it wasn’t a dodgy website or something. It’s always something similar to that which will get him angry. Seems nothing writing it down so I suppose regardless of partner he probably needs help with dealing and speaking about things and this isn’t something that happens a lot but has happened more this past few months

Yes he calls him dad, I say partner as we are not married. He has called him dad for around 11 years

See that’s the thing, ds at 17 I expect to struggle and still be learning how to deal with emotions. Partner is an adult, he should have known better. If I was at a point I was so angry I thought I would be violent I would walk away, go upstairs, leave the house… something. I would never be violent to one of my kids

Your view is right and fair. Much depends on whether your partner can agree with it. Then there is a chance you can together help your DS.

I have a look at parenting classes for parents of teens in your area if you can find one- well worth it.
Teens are a nightmare and some more than others. They ARE pushing the boundaries. He clearly was disrespectful and antagonistic and aggressive to your dh for saying fuck off. Right now he’s got the message that if he pushes your dh to point of him loosing his cool, and he now knows how to do that, you will step in, take his side, and he gets his way. And he can throw his weight around to become more powerful than your dh.

dh has left - hopefully to cool off. yes it makes a lot of sense for him to agree to parenting classes and you move on , but he has to learn to control his temper. Even his own kid will push his buttons in this way in a few years- soo good investment. I personally think you were wrong to send him away- sending him out of room to cool down, and doing same with your son would have sent clear message they were both in the wrong and both out of control.

BUT , right now your son is going unpunished by the sound of it. I’d be slamming down hard, very hard. He was not the innocent bystander in this. Yet you’re giving him tea and sympathy. He was a nasty boy with a lot of aggression at that time, and if not got under control with firm boundaries and consequences and consistent parenting between you, he will be physically abusing you next. It may be rare, but he needs to learn how to control the switch flipping, and as for not liking to be told stuff - tough shit. We all have to do that. You have to punish him, you have to calmly explain why, what your boundaries are and the consequences of breaking them. Shouting at his mother is one of boundaries he must not cross. Talk with him calmly about how he could vent his frustrations more productively to get the same result . You need to be clear that they were both in the wrong - partner should most certainly not attack him, but he has a part to play here. It was typical male pissing competition- right now son has won. What message does that give him for the future?

So, the important boundary that has been crossed here is that violence has been used. Nothing from the child can excuse that. There is no way back from this that doesn’t start with an apology and acknowledgement of that from the person who used violence.
The OP was not “taking her son’s side.” She was drawing a really significant boundary. We do not use violence. End of. She was right to do this.

What @Appleofmyeye2023 said is spot on.

Even if it doesn't heal it, therapy will help them both have a better ending to their relationship. Give it a day or two, see how your DS is feeling then.

Hmm tricky one but it isn't unusual for stepfathers and adolescent boys to get into this 'gorilla' mode and the step father wants to exert his authority and remind the adolescent male that step dad is in charge. Being physically aggressive towards your DS is totally unacceptable. There is no excuses for it and I would suggest it is your partner who seeks therapy not your DS. Adolescents raising voices and getting irritated with parents is normal- physically threatening or grabbing with the view to throwing them out is not

I agree with Apple too. Also if you are looking into therapy please consider anger management classes for your son since it appears he can't control his if he keeps shouting and being aggressive at others all the time. Once he starts drinking alcohol/pub it won't end well so it's time he learnt not to kick off over everything little thing.

Non violent communication teenage parenting works. Most LAs have classes.

Shouldn’t the person who used violence be the first candidate for the anger management classes? The person who is, you know, a grown man???

If he'd been aggressive to you or your ds10 people wouldn't be advising therapy.

He's crossed a line and it's up to your ds if he wants to forgive that but I wouldn't be forgiving anyone who attacked my son like that

He was physical because your son became angry when he was told to "piss off out the house." He became involved in an argument that he didn't need to be involved in, said unpleasant things, and he became physical. Your partner should attend therapy. Not with your son. As an adult, he needs to be responsible for his actions.

Your son is a separate issue. Is he quick to anger at school too?

A 17 year old (only a year off being considered an adult, but old enough to do plenty even live independently) was disrespectful to a man who without ever before snapped on this occasion

We don't even know if he intended to use violence, only that OP isn't sure if he meant to physically put him outside or was about to hit him

The man leaves. Without issue. Without defending himself - agreed to go and went

In 15 years of raiding this child it never got here before and now posters are worrying he'd do it to the ten year old ffs 🤦‍♀️

It wasn't his finest moment - but no I cannot equate that with a man who does it, protests his innocence, refuses to leave and wasn't provoked by a very almost adult being disrespectful

The suggestion of non violent teen parenting classes sounds really worthwhile and if this man is a decent man then I would imagine he'd be all for it and love DS17 enough to model being an adult who's made a poor decision in the moment but determined to work hard to rectify it and prevent it