To ask ds17 to consider therapy worh my now ex?

[Outoftheblues]

Totally outing situation but I am prepared for honest responses. Sorry if it’s long but I want to try and give full details.
this week my partner of 15 years was physical with my ds17.
partner and ds initially had a great relationship, ds’s biological father has never been involved and partner has raised him since he was very young. We have a further ds10 together. Throughout ds17’s teen years their relationship became more strained. About 90% of the time they got along fine but they would occasionally argue and disagree. This would lead to raised voices and arguments but nothing serious. This weekend me and ds were talking and it became a little heated, nothing huge but ds raised his voice when he was unhappy with something I said, if he had given me time to finish he would have realised I didn’t mean anything and it was really a misunderstanding. Partner was in the living room, heard his raised voice and shouted through that he was fed up of him shouting and being rude and to piss off out the house (ds17 was in the porch as we were about to go out). Ds responded by telling partner to fuck off so partner charged from the living room and grabbed hold of ds. It all happened so fast that I can’t say exactly what he was trying to do, could have been to hit him, Grab him and physically throw him out the house or something else. Ds grabbed him back and they scuffled for a second or two before they both listened to me to stop and backed away from each other.
I immediately told partner to pack his stuff and leave, he didn’t argue or try to apologise for anything, took some things and has gone to his parents house.
it’s been 2 days now, my ds10 is heartbroken, so am I, ds17 has said he is fine but wants nothing further to do with him. Apart from speaking about ds10 and arrangements for him me and partner haven’t had contact. Partner has not contacted or spoken to ds17 at all.
I have today wondered whether this can be repaired. I want to say my loyalties lie with ds17, and in most ways they do but I am now also thinking of me and ds10 and our lives too. Which brings me to my question: would it be completely unreasonable of me to speak to ds17 and ask him whether there is a way forward from this. I am not thinking we forget about it and move partner back in but maybe therapy could be an option. For ds17 it could maybe help him figure out why he jumps to shouting and swearing at people so quickly and different ways to tackle that. Partner could look at why he reacted the way he did and how to do things differently. I’m sure partner if here to speak for himself would maybe say I enable ds by pandering to him and not doing anything about his behaviour when it happens and need to change how I react.
I keep thinking that ds is approaching adulthood, he will soon be going to uni or full time work and probably moving to a place of his own and although it feels completely selfish of me I think that when he does that I will then be single when we could try and work things out.
their relationship will probably never be the same but maybe it could be something rather than nothing
any advice, I am happy to be told I shouldn’t even consider it but please try to think what you would do if apart from this one incident, life had been good the majority of the time

thanks again if you got through that, I know it was very long

Thank you everyone, ds17 isn’t like this elsewhere, no issues at school at all or outside with friends or anything.
I will look into the parenting classes suggested and will definitely do them, hopefully partner will too.
I have just spoken to ds, laid out everything I’m feeling. His straight away response was no to trying to figure anything out but I did say regardless of partner his attitude towards me recently and the switch flip of being angry and shouting needs sorting. He has been like a different person the past couple of days, calm, rational and treating me with such respect. It should have been like this all the time not needing the family pulled apart for it to happen. He has agreed he will agree for me to look at ways to repair, he says he doesn’t think it will work and that he doesn’t trust partner near me or ds10 but I have said how I feel we need to at least look and see if we can give it a chance.
I have asked partner to come round a little earlier so we can talk before he takes ds10 for the night. Ds17 is going out to the gym so it will give us a little time to talk whilst he isn’t at home

Sometimes I think it's so easy to say things on the internet- there's 15 years of a relationship with a man who may as well be his biological father that I think would be far more damaging to all members of the family to become the incident that tears it apart.

It definitely needs addressing and therapy and non violent communication parenting classes sound completely more appropriate long term than destroying all relationships with this man altogether because of it. If it's necessary to, that will become evident - I absolutely don't think it's the goal as a response

You make it sound like 50/50 blame here. Your son shouted and swore. He is a 17 year old kid. It is what they do. Yes I know that he is one year away from being legally considered an adult, but mentally most people aren't fully mature until mid twenties. Your partner is a fully grown man who should be able to keep himself on check. I agree with another poster saying that is just your partner who needs counselling.

A decent therapist wouldn't see them together first anyway

They'd work alone before considering working together to make sure it was safe and not risking further violence to do so

The "therapy" is for a fractured relationship, to repair that - work would be done separately on self control issues

• sorry meant to say that your partner needs counselling more than DS does.

But seriously, don't make it sound like your son is equally to blame or your dp's response was justified.

Family counselling with a neutral mediator might help though.

The other day there was a thread were the woman was verbally and emotionally abusive, her DH punched her arm as she was stopping him from doing something, yet she was told that violence is always unacceptable and he should leave for good, but apparently violence is acceptable to teenage boys?
You don't go to counselling with abuser and his stepdad has been abusive towards him. Sort out your relationship how you want, but this young person shouldn't be forced into counselling with someone who has assaulted him.

I don’t think she is saying it’s 50/50. She drew the line and told the violent party to leave.
OP I do think this has to start with an unreserved apology for the violence from your DP to your DS. It needs to be clear that everyone involved accepts that red line. Maybe from that there can be progress. i hope so anyway.

@AgathaSpencerGregson

I said she shouldn't make it sound like it was 50/50 and make it clear to her son that the shouting did not justify the response. Not that she did think it was 50/50.

@Ponoka7 i have read that as it had so many similarities. I am honestly torn, I know if the action had been towards me the response would be to leave, it will happen again and that is causing a war of emotions for me. On the one hand I think the fact he did it once shows he can’t control himself, never look back and don’t give him a second chance but the other part of me thinks ds17’s attitude has been appalling at times, he snapped and it can be worked on. I will see what partner says later, we haven’t spoke since it happened so that will give me a better idea of how he is feeling and whether there is remorse

So am I reading this right - your son has been like a different person since your partner left?

I think you need to find out more and take an honest look at their relationship yourself

Yes he has, he is often much better after meltdowns in the past. I think it’s resolved then 6-12 months later the switch flips again and he does it but right now he is completely different and speaking and acting with such respect
my world turned upside down this week, I am not going to rush things or make an decisions but I think I also do need to think, this isn’t some boyfriend I have dumped, it’s my partner of 15 years, who I have raised both my children with and the person I genuinely thought I would spend my whole life with. I think I need to allow myself to pause and explore all options even if it is selfish of me to do so

He’s your DS s father figure too. That’s not a relationship to be dismissed lightly. I don’t think it’s selfish of you to consider very carefully what the right way forward is, for all of you.
really tough situation and I wish you all the best.

You can’t do therapy with someone who has been physically abusive. Your partner crossed a line.

While therapy may be a way forward for both of them, it should be your partner that prioritises it as he is the one who is an adult and crossed into physical abuse.

Your DS likely needs therapy too, but again separately. Different therapist, different times and so on. Telling your DS to fuck off out the house- implying leave and don’t come back was verbal abuse. I wonder how much low level abuse he has endured and he may be going down the path of fighting fire with fire.

I don’t think the goal should be to “repair their relationship”, the goal for your partner should anger management. Why does he shout and swear? And why did someone giving him as good as they got push him into physical abuse? If your DS had not be strong enough to withstand the tackling and grappling, it wouldn’t have ended well imho. Your partner only stopped because he realised DS was a match for him physically.

Id not be looking to move him back in. Not with another 10yr old DS at home. If you want to stay partners with him, fine, but I would recommend you do not live together until your DSs are full independent adults who have left home. Your partner doesn’t seem to be able to share space with other males.

Wrt he isn’t like it elsewhere…well no, he is in his safe space at home with his parents. You’re the ones that he is naturally rebelling against which is normal.
it is not normal for him to tell his parents to fuck off and get away with it .
stop making excuses.
they are both, in their own ways, in the wrong

Your son slightly raised his voice so your partners reaction was to tell him to piss off? Son replied in kind and so partners reaction was to physically attack him?

I'm amazed people are defending this. If it was your dd this happened to them the responses would be extremely different I'm sure.

You're going to lose one of the other here OP, sadly no matter how you say your loyalties lie with ds (well mostly - whatever that means) it's pretty clear you want to sweep it under the carpet, play pretend happy families and just hope ds 'gets over it' at some point. Your poor ds.

Teenagers are notoriously difficult to parent, so if there is any moving forward from this then your partner desperately needs to learn to control his temper! He has to be the adult in the situation and that does sometimes mean picking your battles, similarly your son doesn't sound great either, he needs to learn how to manage his feelings and emotions - he's 17, so yes he's young but he's also very nearly an adult, and if this behaviour goes unchecked he will carry it into his relationships, and this is the kind of thing we are desperate to stop as women.

I think communication between them is key here, your partner needs to apologise and show he is taking steps to control his anger and he needs to communicate that to your son, and your son needs to know he is also guilty and needs to take steps to manage his temper too.

Maybe individual therapy first? Two hotheads in therapy together might not be effective.

Yes I’m not thinking therapy together and when I spoke to ds I did say that I am not looking to sweep it away, there will be none of partner coming back. It will be a way for all of us to try and be better people, that may lead to relationships being rebuilt but at the same way it may not.
the person who said, what if it was a dd… this is what I keep coming back to, if it was me or you get ds would I feel this way and try to repair? because physically they are pretty evenly matched am I making it less than it is.
I am honestly taking all comments on board and trying to find a way to survive and hope that when I look back I can feel I did the right thing for everyone involved if that’s even possible

Individual Therapy for your 17yo would not be a bad idea. Individual therapy for your ex, also not a bad idea. They do not need family therapy right now. It would pressure your son to forgive your ex so that you could reconcile.

He has been like a different person the past couple of days, calm, rational and treating me with such respect. It should have been like this all the time not needing the family pulled apart for it to happen.

Well your partner should have thought of thar before shouting at him to fuck off out the house and getting up, barging out and physically attempting to manhandle/physically tackle him.

Your DS didn’t break the family up. Your partner did by his actions.

A teen that cannot even raise their voice in a heated discussion without being subjected to verbal abuse and being physically attacked is not living in a safe home situation.

Your DS is showing you that he can let down his guard and be the sweet person he is when your partner isn’t occupying the same space and the threat of him flying off the handle isn’t hanging over your DS head all the time.

I think it's very unlikely your son would want to attend 'therapy' and it's unlikely your OH will even want to come 'home' if you're against him.
I'm pretty sure he's regretting what he did however I don't think he'd be prepared to stand by or put up with such behaviour from your son again. It sounds like he's accepted that whilst he's in the home, he can't be around him.
How sad for you all.

I am reactive myself, so a moody fuck of a teenager would be looking for a house share, not councelling. If that doesn't restore the calm, so would be DP.

@QueenCamilla same! Although if he was mine that would be happening if he ever told me to fuck off whilst I was helping him ever again!

This guy also isn't an abuser fgs. He was trying to help, ds got shitty with him, ds then asked his mum for help and got shittier with her. Dp had enough. I'd be surprised if he even wants to come back. I bloody wouldn't.

I'd be explaining very carefully that at 17 if he couldn't stop himself from being a dick he is free to get a houseshare.

I agree with this. Your child effectively to both his parents is shouting and then telling the man who has loved, raised him and paid for him to fuck off - I would be livid if my child did that to me - give the man who stepped up and parented a child that wasn’t his a break. Both need to apologise and your DH is right to insist that as DS is now 17 he doesn’t swear, shout or throw his weight around - the 10 year old will follow.

a big family meeting is needed

emotional and verbal abuse is still abuse and a line needs to be drawn as is physical abuse

he says he doesn’t think it will work and that he doesn’t trust partner near me or ds10

This is an interesting comment. Why would he think this? Coupled with the fact that he has also been calm and settled since your DP left? Has your DP honestly always been fair, calm and reasonable? Because to run into a minor back and forth between mum and son and grab the son out of the blue seems unusual.

That man had just told him to piss off out of the house. How is son's reaction of "fuck off" the problem here?