To think D of E is a massive swindle

[DofEswindle]

Namechanged in case DD sees this!

She's doing Duke of Edinburgh Bronze with the school for the bargain (hah!) price of £250. I thought everything would be included for that money but we've now been told they need to get a rucksack liner ("no bin bags!") and fancy Wayfarer meal sachets ("no pot noodles!") as well as being told we can hire sleeping mats, sleeping bags etc. if we don't have them.

It just feels like a massive cash-in by the company organising it and Go Outdoors etc to make as much money as they can from gullible parents (me). I assumed the kids would meal plan together and work out what supplies to bring but they've all been told to get special sachets of ready meals at £4.50 each ("no pot noodles" but they are basically posh pot noodles).

Surely D of E should be about teamwork and loving the outdoors not sending your mum to spend a fortune in a camping shop? We're not on benefits so couldn't claim any help from school but £250 is an awful lot of money to spend a night in a field.

And people go on about how our schools should be more like Singapore and China where the situation is even worse.

Our school has stopped offering Bronze as it's difficult enough to staff Silver and Gold. External providers do charge a lot!

In both private and state sectors, teachers' willingness to volunteer time for such things is being really challenged by all sort of factors.

If I read a personal statement saying 'I was going to do DoE but it was too expensive. So me and four mates camped in a field belonging to the friend of my friends aunt for a week' I'd be impressed. But, I've not been in that position for quite a few years.

At the end of the day, can you push yourself to be resilient, learn something, help others; there's a few ways to do that.

Some schools farm it out and make it inaccessible. And as for bin bags, they come in a wide range of qualities.

Haven’t read the whole thread, but it seems really expensive and not really ‘in the spirit’. Most dc seem to do the meal planning as a group & share out carrying the food/stove/tent etc. Loads of organisations do DofE tho, so maybe see if you can find a different group for her and save the £££?

Bin bags and (inevitably raw) noodles here. Was still £ as outside provider but I can't imagine they can force you to use e.g. bag liners and fancy meal packets. What is wrong with a black bin liner? At least you can use it afterwards as an actual bin bag?

Nuts they are dictating food - but its more than a night in a field.

Our school (private) charged £40, and we could borrow most of the items if we didn't have them.

Experience tells me that not advising students what food to take and sometimes being quite insistent means they bring all kinds of unsuitable food. For example thinking that a pot noodle is a meal and then wondering why they have no energy the next day.

A rucksack liner is about £3 on ebay. But rubble sacks are fine, so if your DDs group are happy to put in 50p each, you can buy a roll of those for them to divvy up.

Our school provided tents and camping stoves only, the £250 covered the training and supervision by an external company, who were absolutely brilliant to be fair (my daughter is autistic and really panicked and they were great with her).

Ask around friends, family, neighbours for other equipment - rucksack, sleeping bag, plates etc. You can buy walking boots relatively cheaply from Decathlon but we did invest in a waterproof pair from Black's and the DofE discount came in handy. Her feet were the driest part of her when the rains came down on the practice walk! Check ebay or Vinted for a waterproof jacket.

Food wise, our group clubbed together and planned lunches and dinners - quick cook pasta and a sauce. Pretty certain planning your food is a requirement of the expedition. Although my daughter didn't each much more than flapjacks and sweets!

Mine were allowed to take pot noodles!

Im sure part of the Bronze is meal planning a 'nutritious meal'. Its only one night, so they should be bringing ingredients to make said meal between them. Our lot made a basic pasta with bacon and tomato sauce, and then doubled up the bacon with pancakes and maple syrup the next morning.

Think ours cost £150 for bronze, but included lessons every Friday, and first aid training as the 'skill' in Year 1. Silver £250, and gold has been £350.

We did the practice run in the school grounds, and then they went to Ashdown Forest for the real one.

Silver they started taking those prepared ready meals - practice in Ashdown Forest, real event in the New Forest.

My son is doing gold next week. Practice was 3 nights up snowdon in April, one wild camping, and this real one will be 4 nights in the lake district, with 3 nights wild camping. A year of volunteering, 9 months learning a new skill, and 6 months physical activity. Plus a 5 day residential to organise which doesnt need to be mad expensive.

Its a wonderful experience and my boy has thoroughly enjoyed it. Kit doesnt need to be pricey - lots can be borrowed or bought cheaply on ebay/vinted. And resold to next years cohort. Decent walking boots are a must though, and socks with liners.

If you want a cheaper option, look to National Citizen Service - simialr scheme but only £50, and includes a residential https://www.gov.uk/government/get-involved/take-part/national-citizen-service

Gosh, when I was young (circa 2000) the county youth group ran it and it was free!

And bin-bag liners and pot-noodles were both very much on the kit list!

It was a great introduction to meal planning, I will never forget going to the supermarket with my friends, aged 14, to buy food for our Bronze expedition, and emerging with some cold cooked salmon, coleslaw and a baguette, amongst other delights! We took it with us too, and it taught us to opt for boil in the bag rice and cuppa soup by the time we did our Silver!

I did mine years ago with cadets. Didn't really cost anything. We could loan nearly everything but ended up buying waterproofs and rucksack as we used them regularly with other trips.

Well exactly.

There was no disability - it was the first question I asked!

I was told it was because the kids basically wanted something to put on their uni statements.

Absolutely ridiculous!

The idea of DofE is great but I can see why my parents wouldn't let me do it! It's not cheap. I had to buy a musical instrument for my dd, then pay for lessons to learn it, that has cost me in excess of £300! It's also a major hassle to organise volunteering and ferrying them about to whatever sport they take up - again, joining a club costs money! I don't mind as it's an amazing opportunity and we're lucky that, although generally pretty skint, we're not on benefits and can afford for her to do it. Sadly I can imagine a lot of children don't take it up because of the cost.
It's also a major faff filling all the online stuff in and chasing the music tutor, volunteering bloke and sports club leader to sign them off! I do hope she does her Silver next year as I'll be more prepared!

Have you already paid and now dc has changed their mind?
in which case they need to be paying you back the money!

Thanks for the details on NCS - will be looking into it when she's older.

And thanks to all for food tips - I will get DD to go shopping on strike day!

Dc has just done silver and it cost me £50, that was mainly for mini bus hire to get them to where they were going. Your school sounds nuts, is it private?
They were also told that meal planning in their groups of 2s or 3s was part of the award. It helped the weight of their bags too as they bought the food then split it over the 3 of them, no duplication.
Having parents buy it for them isn't really the point!

What a waste of time.

And not sure that's really so different to exam fraud.

Best thing I did as a teenager. And was massively beneficial for the degree I chose afterwards.

Also on the meals front - Wayfarer meals are more expensive but nutritionally balanced vs pot noodles which are cheaper but most certainly not.

I can understand that times are tough and extra funds are a problem but the benefits are much more wide reaching.

(my mother would disagree - she hated that I did DoE and didn’t understand the appeal. I got a massive amount from it - not least being the fuck away from her. She thought it was expensive 20 years ago - and had no appreciation that I then went on to use the boots/kit etc for the next 7 years because I knew what degree I was going for.)

Its not a swizz, it’s a training exercise. Some kids will grow from it, some not so much. Down to your kid which it is.

School isn't private or a grammar school. Bit pretentious though.

Yes I will make sure DD chooses the food, mainly so she can't complain!

I agree with what should be a level playing field is being made a cash cow. Very unfair.
I remember those Wayfarer meals and them being expensive when I did it, but I don't see why they have to be obligatory. Insist on nutrition, yes but it doesn't have to be that branded stuff.
Could some of the money be insurance?

All this discussion about meal planning has taken me back (and back ...) to when I did Bronze / started Silver. I think it was the bronze walk when I was in the middle of an elimination diet for allergy testing - the teacher supervising was horrified by what I was taking (pikelets made with rice flour and egg, minced lamb with rice, lettuce, and ... not much else IIRC). But I felt so much better than I had ever done before. I must have done another walk after that, when the teacher had extolled the usefulness of pita breads so our group had brought some to try. I'd told them I wouldn't be having any, I'd be bringing my own food, but they still brought one for me and then complained how heavy they were to carry when I said, I can't eat wheat I'll be ill if I eat them so no thanks!

Try your local army surplus store, they'll be able to kit dc out with good quality kit at reasonable prices. They'll probably be used to D of E participants & will know what is needed.

We offer d of E at school and it’s all included in the cost and MUCH lower in price than that.