To think D of E is a massive swindle

[DofEswindle]

Namechanged in case DD sees this!

She's doing Duke of Edinburgh Bronze with the school for the bargain (hah!) price of £250. I thought everything would be included for that money but we've now been told they need to get a rucksack liner ("no bin bags!") and fancy Wayfarer meal sachets ("no pot noodles!") as well as being told we can hire sleeping mats, sleeping bags etc. if we don't have them.

It just feels like a massive cash-in by the company organising it and Go Outdoors etc to make as much money as they can from gullible parents (me). I assumed the kids would meal plan together and work out what supplies to bring but they've all been told to get special sachets of ready meals at £4.50 each ("no pot noodles" but they are basically posh pot noodles).

Surely D of E should be about teamwork and loving the outdoors not sending your mum to spend a fortune in a camping shop? We're not on benefits so couldn't claim any help from school but £250 is an awful lot of money to spend a night in a field.

YANBU.

I did d of e many, many moons ago and it was wonderful. We had to beg, borrow or buy everything we could, had to meal plan as a group, coordinate what we were bringing etc. It was such a fantastic experience that I volunteered to work with a local organisation which offered d of e (I have a DBS and I'm a mountaineer and other such qualifications, all started through d of e). But I had to give it up - al kids/ parents had to buy " regulation" kit, specified meal sachets, specific sleeping bags etc. Was so sanitised and prescribed. Not the d of e I did at all. Another group I enquired with took the equipment (tents, sleeping stuff, stoves and cooking stuff) to the campsite FOR the kids. The kids only carried food and clothes with them. Ridiculous!

Unless there was a disability, transporting the kit for them would mean they would fail to meet the requirements of the award.

The rucksack liners can be just a few pounds, and actually despite my misgivings, my son found those wayfarer meals to be really good - chicken tikka rice one, and the beans and sausage one were both good. I tried one and was v surprised! They’re also dead easy to heat up and clear up from - they cooked “proper” meals on bronze, but tried the wayfarer for silver practice and have stuck with them. Tons of snacks as well tho. And they’re always buy one get one half price.

Our school is much cheaper but that’s because they have quite a lot of d of e trained school staff who volunteer to run it and give up hours and hours of their time doing it with the kids, spending days and days off camping with the silver and bronze practice and real expeditions, last year there were 2 bronze groups and a silver so the same set of teachers had 6 long weekends away with the kids camping and walking. It’s a big ask and I’m v glad they do it at the school but if they don’t have staff to do it in house it’s going to cost money for people to come in and run it for them. I wouldn’t call it a money making scheme by the school - I expect they just pass the cost of it onto you but I’d be surprised if they made money? I dunno, I guess it’s possible. But it needs a lot of time and input and that’ll cost if they’re buying it in.

Loads of people are just finishing up d of e right now and I’m seeing a lot of kit for sale on fb groups etc so keep an eye out for it.

You can of course do personal development in a whole variety of ways. Unfortunately like DofE in schools opportunties are few and far between, or expensive nowadays. One should ask the government why they don't value these sorts of things.

In my local area the Young Offender Institution and school for those with severe learning and physical difficulties both have DofE groups. They of course run the expedition section very differently to a mainstream school, but what they do is no less valuable.

None of mine did DofE because it's stupidly expensive to pay the fee and get the 'equipment' so they can hike with their people who aren't necessarily their friends whilst carrying a heavy bag and spend a night in a sleeping bag in a field. Mine can and have done those things for a heck of a lot cheaper. Hard pass.

The cost will be coming from an external company as your school will not have willing/qualified leaders. The school will not be making money off it. Schools running in house in my area are about £50 with students providing own food,boots, clothes. Pot noodles and wayfarer meals both discouraged. Scouts/guides are usually the cheapest way of doing it.

It's the outside agencies that cost. Ours had lots of kit including rucksacks that could be borrowed.

My DS finished his almost 2 years ago, all signed off (he has the mini certificates for each section) and we are still waiting for the actual award!! He really doesn't care but for £250 and a lot of time/ effort I am very invested in him receiving it.

Ours was dearer than that and part of it was like if you learned an instrument or had music lessons or similar. Just felt very geared towards the better off.

It is also necessary to transport some kit if not doing so would mean a student carrying more than 25% of their body weight. A well packed rucksack would be 10-12kgs for Bronze so it is not that unusual to have to transport some kit for year 9 students.

So, cook 2 packs?

The idea that kids on a 2-night expedition should not eat pot noodles is ridiculous imo. They just need sufficient calories and ideally some protein. Pot noodles + some chorizo makes a perfectly fine expedition meal.

It costs me £250 a year per child to do a DofE level, plus equipment on top.

The teachers at the DC's school no longer wish to volunteer and give up their spare time so practice expeditions, formal expeditions and the expedition training is provided by an external company - for £250 per child. Considering this is done over 3 weekends a year and the responsibility of supervising a teenager, I don't think £250 is unreasonable but the cost does make it inaccessible to all.

@jgw1 I was curious as (going by what I read on mumsnet) the Expedition part seems to be the most important (and expensive)part and many teens just simply wouldn’t be able to do that part.
To be honest I think activities that involve teamwork and planning, and doing volunteer work should just be a standard part of school life. It should be considered a normal and basic thing to do.
Like with the NCS - it can’t be done until after GCSEs. Bit late - schemes like that should be incorporated into schools from a much younger age.
But…I’m rambling.

Schools mostly outsource now because it's very difficult to staff the trips.

I was DofE coordinator at my last school (a bit independent one). We used to do it in house and we had a full set of tents/equipment that pupils could borrow rather than get their own (many chose to buy their own if they progressed to silver as they did whiff a smidge because they weren't always properly dried before return). The school increasingly struggled to staff the trips. Now they outsource the expedition, and it has doubled the cost to parents. My new school has also outsourced.

Sadly, my experience is that the centres DON'T train the students well. We used to meet them before in the planning stages, obviosuly catch up with them on the expedition itself and debrief them afterwards. The external companies just don't have that ongoing relationship with the pupils so it is a much more surface-level interaction and the pupils don't learn as much.

Hmmm I agree with some of what you say, but I think you've been unlucky with your school. My dcs' schools have lent them rucksacks, tents, stoves, etc and they've only had to buy their clothes, walking boots and food/snacks, which we had complete freedom to choose. Also the kids got together beforehand to plan the meals (my dd had to buy washing up liquid and coffee, someone else bought the pasta and someone else the pasta sauce) so there definitely was some teamwork.
Overall I've been impressed with the D of E scheme and think it has taught them resilience (3 days trekking in the rain!) and teamwork. Plus the volunteering side of it is valuable.

As others have said it's not the D of E that's expensive it's the way it's been run. For ds via scouts, silver is £27 and gold £33

😬 I felt annoyed that DDs DofE was £35. I'll stop moaning 😂
Luckily we had most things, she's robbed a stove and a tent off my brother.
She's taking sandwiches for day one lunch, pasta and sauce for tea and for day 2 she's got chocolate brioche buns and cereal bars and some sort of sandwich for lunch (and probably lots of snacks).

She's had a great time volunteering, but I don't know if she will do Silver.

Dd1 did it through the Guide movement about 5 yrs ago. Meal planning was part of it, no special sachets to buy. I think quick cook pasta and pepperoni was involved.

They did recommend certain rucksacs but could lend them if needed. The rucksac has been used again. As have the walking boots

My GS is doing his gold, his school will lend equipment if you don't have it so we haven't spent much. Obviously we expect to pay something for several weekends off on practices for the expedition plus the expedition itself and he needed walking boots but we got them reduced as they had faded in the shop window. Think it has cost £350 all in with the exception of his residential. We chose not to do a free volunteering one but paid for an activity one that he really enjoyed.

Maybe suggest asking the school to set up a scheme where people can donate suitable equipment for kids who don't have their own. GSs school does it for skiing trips as well so parents don't have to buy things they can't afford.

I don't count the cost of food for the trip as I'd be feeding him anyway. We don't have to have the wayfarer meals but they do need stuff that has a high calorific value, easy to carry and will keep without refrigeration as they are away for 5 days on the gold expedition. Oh and easy to prepare. We've used Lidl breakfast bars and their cheese pasta sachets that just need hot water added, all very cheap, plus chorizo from the supermarket deli which he loves served with couscous. All cheap, keep well and super easy.

@MandyMotherOfBrian it wasn’t the Duke of Edinburgh’s idea. Someone else came up with it, he only got put his name to it. Even he admitted it was fuck all to do with him.

The skills you mention should indeed form part of any decent education, but since they can't be measured by exams, schools are not weighed on the basis of them so they get neglected.

I took a studnet on expedition who used an electric wheelchair, his group had a different but no less valuable experience than the other groups who did the expedition at that time. DofE as an organisation has lots of support and advice for making the Awards accessible.

Might be worth asking friends for equipment/ raiding Facebook market place or similar. Amazing how often I see camping equipment etc on there with limited usage!! Good 🤞

Or army cadets. DS did for free.

@jgw1 that’s depressing true - the whole school system is set up that something is only important if you get an exam grade out of it.
Shame. Schools could be so much more than what they are.

Ours is costing £140 for silver hike, kids meal plan and share food and we use rubble sacks.