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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think 'think 25' is getting silly

201 replies

ChopSuey2 · 03/07/2023 01:43

I'm in my 30s. I might look late 20s on a good day but there is no chance I look early 20s. It seems like 'think 25' has now become 'is there any chance they could be 25?' when the whole point is making sure under 18s (or 16s, depending on the product) aren't being sold things illegally. You might think someone could be 25 but very clearly not under 18. If that's the case, why do they have to ID?

I usually carry ID so it's not a big issue but it seems ridiculous I get IDed more in my mid 30s than I did at 15!

AIBU to thinks shops should trust their workers to have some common sense and only ID people who there is actually a chance could be under 18 (people who genuinely look under 25).

OP posts:
lieselotte · 03/07/2023 14:39

@IBetGordonRamsayDoesntHaveTheseProblemsYou know you can show the stored photo of the ID for your phone and that's acceptable right

If that is indeed the case then the policy is even more stupid than I thought.

Digital ID is one thing, a photo is quite another. Why bother at all?

oneleggedspider · 03/07/2023 15:02

ISeeTrees · 03/07/2023 06:27

I get asked for ID more often than not and I don't mind- always have my license with me anyway- I wouldn't want to risk a fine if I worked the same job. They do a lot of mystery shoppers here too.
Age is a difficult one to judge. No way do I look 18 but in the right circumstances probably under 25 (I'm 32).
The thing I DO object to is the way some checkout staff stare/scrutinize my face for an age until they decide whether or not to ask me for ID- I usually offer at this point to save some awkwardness and they accept (I thought if there was any doubt they should just ask?). I've also had my license flung back at me with a "well you don't look it" and a huff before.

This! I don't mind them asking, but had a cashier look at me for ages yesterday, saying nothing, then went to press the 'clearly over 25' button, stopped herself, clearly overthinking it- and turned around to stare at me again... until I ended the awkwardness by just giving her my ID.

I'm 36. I find it's mostly women cashiers over the age of 50 who still ID me. Maybe it's just harder to tell people's ages as you get older yourself. 🤷‍♀️

Maverickess · 03/07/2023 16:10

IBetGordonRamsayDoesntHaveTheseProblems · 03/07/2023 14:13

As I said, I don't carry a wallet or a handbag. I carry a phone and keys - that's it. Not all women's clothes have pockets - today's outfit has zero.

If I know I'm going on a night out then I'll usually remember to take my driving licence out. However, if I bump into friends and we decide to have a quick pint, I wouldn't have ID with me. If I spot a special offer on my favourite wine in Tesco, I wouldn't have ID on me.

What some posters on this thread are saying is that I should either completely change what I wear every day, or I should remove all sense of spontaneity, all because you can't perform a key part of your job - assessing people's age visually - with competence.

No one is telling you to do anything. As pp says it's your responsibility to prove your age when buying an age restricted product, because if you don't then the concequences are on them if they are caught out, not you. You likely won't even know about it if the person stood behind you in the queue is a mystery shopper or just a nose ointment that reports a possible underage/proxy sale.
And once again for the hard of thinking, you don't need to break a law to break a licencing condition, and when you break licencing conditions and get caught, there are concequences.

And can you please provide a definite, absolute set of guidelines for exactly what people look like at any given age? What to look for in each person that means they're definitely (as in you would be willing to stake your livelihood on it at the least) over 18, 21 and 25? That is as acceptable as photo ID? It's got to be beyond any doubt.

There isn't one I've ever found, so maybe there's a gap in the market for you to develop one and ensure absolutely that sales can be done with competency every single time.

The reason only photo ID is acceptable proof of age is because everyone looks different and everyone has different perception.

One answer is that everyone, no matter their age, is required to show photo ID when they wish to purchase a restricted product, or we continue with the current situation where people are relied upon which leaves the door open for different perception at play, and sometimes you don't gasp get your booze, or we just let it be a free for all and anyone can buy anything they want with no one but the person buying it being responsible for what they do with it afterwards.

Sussexcricket · 03/07/2023 16:13

because everyone looks different and everyone has different perception.

This . It's nothing to do with being incompetent. I'm not asking to piss people off or for the sake of it

CrazyHedgehogLover · 03/07/2023 17:32

YABU I work in a retail store and a lot of underage people look much older, wearing makeup etc can completely change the look of how old an individual looks.

I think it’s good to have think 25 because it teaches us as staff to be extra cautious as we still have a duty of care to make sure we’re not selling inappropriate products to an underage person.

Dinopawus · 03/07/2023 17:49

I'm in my 50s and am confident at judging if people are under 25 or not. I would have passed the test posted up thread.

This isn't some sort of unique talent or the preserve of middle aged women. You just need to look past what people are wearing and study the skin in their face. The challenge 25 training I did, specifically made the point that it's OK to ask people to remove sunglasses for example, before judging people's age.

Of course if you're not sure, you have to check. But it's idiotic to ask people with crows feet for ID.

hey2o · 03/07/2023 18:00

I held up my car keys and my hand with rings on, and the man on self serve went, yeaaaah that’ll do (I am under 25!)

yellowdinoplate · 03/07/2023 18:02

I got asked for ID buying paracetamol in Boots last year! I'd just turned 40, I was over the moon!

Elphame · 03/07/2023 20:56

"the power lies with the person serving you"

And there it is - the young person serving me was certainly on a power trip. They looked a little disappointed when I didn't rise to it. I just told them mildly to put it back then.....

Crocadoodletzu · 03/07/2023 21:13

I got Id’d for wine a few years ago, I said I was 47 the woman on the till who looked considerably older than me, said “I doubt it I’m 47” we looked at each other and then I took my drivers licence out and she silently rang my purchase up. Now I’m often told I look young, but we are taking max 10 years younger, not 30 absolutely ridiculous

Maverickess · 04/07/2023 11:17

Elphame · 03/07/2023 20:56

"the power lies with the person serving you"

And there it is - the young person serving me was certainly on a power trip. They looked a little disappointed when I didn't rise to it. I just told them mildly to put it back then.....

To be honest if I had asked you for ID because I wasn't sure and that was your response, I'd just be grateful that I didn't get a tirade from you with personal insults and making a scene, because that is more common than it ought to be for any interaction between customers and staff, without provoking it for the sake of it.

While there probably are some people who serve alcohol that are like that, I don't particularly like being shouted at, personally insulted and mocked. On the other hand I do quite like having a job in order to pay my bills and staying off the radar of the local police, licencing team and not ending up on a disciplinary.

I'm not trying to take over the world one refused sale at a time. I don't want to be responsible for what you do under the influence of or with the alcohol I've sold you, or if you are purchasing it knowing full well you're under age and it's illegal to do so.

I'm as much at the mercy of these rules as you are, I'd much prefer it to be that people take responsibility for themselves where alcohol is concerned.

The laws and licence conditions are the government paying lip service to the issues that alcohol abuse causes within society and the money it costs from policing, the NHS and councils, instead of actually tackling it properly.

By loading the responsibilities onto the retailers and by extension their staff, and not the people actually buying and using it. And society, ime, backs this when something happens, a young person near me ended up dead because of alcohol not so long ago - one of the first questions asked was where did the alcohol come from, because whoever supplied it was to blame because they were, by a few months, under age.

But the crux of the matter is that people do not like being 'challenged' by someone they see as there to serve them, because they feel then that the balance of 'power' between server and customer is off and that as a customer, they should never be questioned and certainly not refused.

But while most of the concequences fall on the person selling it and the person holding the licence for the premises, very little will change because basically, I'd rather you shout at me, personally insult me and misguidedly think you're important enough to me for me to want to piss you off on purpose, than I face breaking the law, or breaking licencing conditions and any sanctions on the business I work for being imposed.

It shouldn't be a choice between the two, but while people are determined they 'know' licencing laws when they really don't and can't be bothered to do a bit of simple googling (for example mandatory conditions) and have the entitled attitude towards alcohol you see quite often, that is the choice.

Elphame · 04/07/2023 11:56

Maverickess · 04/07/2023 11:17

To be honest if I had asked you for ID because I wasn't sure and that was your response, I'd just be grateful that I didn't get a tirade from you with personal insults and making a scene, because that is more common than it ought to be for any interaction between customers and staff, without provoking it for the sake of it.

While there probably are some people who serve alcohol that are like that, I don't particularly like being shouted at, personally insulted and mocked. On the other hand I do quite like having a job in order to pay my bills and staying off the radar of the local police, licencing team and not ending up on a disciplinary.

I'm not trying to take over the world one refused sale at a time. I don't want to be responsible for what you do under the influence of or with the alcohol I've sold you, or if you are purchasing it knowing full well you're under age and it's illegal to do so.

I'm as much at the mercy of these rules as you are, I'd much prefer it to be that people take responsibility for themselves where alcohol is concerned.

The laws and licence conditions are the government paying lip service to the issues that alcohol abuse causes within society and the money it costs from policing, the NHS and councils, instead of actually tackling it properly.

By loading the responsibilities onto the retailers and by extension their staff, and not the people actually buying and using it. And society, ime, backs this when something happens, a young person near me ended up dead because of alcohol not so long ago - one of the first questions asked was where did the alcohol come from, because whoever supplied it was to blame because they were, by a few months, under age.

But the crux of the matter is that people do not like being 'challenged' by someone they see as there to serve them, because they feel then that the balance of 'power' between server and customer is off and that as a customer, they should never be questioned and certainly not refused.

But while most of the concequences fall on the person selling it and the person holding the licence for the premises, very little will change because basically, I'd rather you shout at me, personally insult me and misguidedly think you're important enough to me for me to want to piss you off on purpose, than I face breaking the law, or breaking licencing conditions and any sanctions on the business I work for being imposed.

It shouldn't be a choice between the two, but while people are determined they 'know' licencing laws when they really don't and can't be bothered to do a bit of simple googling (for example mandatory conditions) and have the entitled attitude towards alcohol you see quite often, that is the choice.

I'm over 60!

If anyone thinks I look anywhere close to 25 let alone 18 they really do need new glasses.

I was actually quite annoyed as I'd made a special journey out for these 0% alcohol Peroni packs as I had a 70 year old guest coming who likes them. I had to go to a different supermarket for them which was a huge waste of my time.

There was absolutely no point in making a fuss as I'm aware of the policies (having a personal licence of my own) and I certainly wasn't going to give the cashier the pleasure of any sort of reaction. Asking me for ID was quite deliberately to be awkward.

LSSG · 04/07/2023 14:18

Cherryana · 03/07/2023 05:42

I got ID’d twice in Sainsbury’s last year. I am 44.
I didn’t mind 😂 My best mistaken age was 17 - six weeks ago..although I do think it’s mainly people don’t look properly then that I look super young (because I don’t).

Same shop, same age! I laughed and was delighted, she looked sheepish. I think I look my age!

tootyflooty · 04/07/2023 17:19

It;s easy enough to carry ID. It's challenge 25 and not something the store have implemented, they do their own spot checks, but also have trading standards run checks, the membersof staff serving you are subject to a disciplinery and a personal fine if caught out, and that is ontop of any fine or penalty the company could incurr, you'd be suprised how hard it is to actually gauge someones age. It is always better for the staff to err on side of caution.

Sussexcricket · 04/07/2023 17:49

tootyflooty · 04/07/2023 17:19

It;s easy enough to carry ID. It's challenge 25 and not something the store have implemented, they do their own spot checks, but also have trading standards run checks, the membersof staff serving you are subject to a disciplinery and a personal fine if caught out, and that is ontop of any fine or penalty the company could incurr, you'd be suprised how hard it is to actually gauge someones age. It is always better for the staff to err on side of caution.

Yes it's unbelievable some people don't understand we do ask 30 something olds as they look younger to us.
It's not incompetence as someone back in the thread said as we are humans not robots
The oldest ive asked is 35.
But that's rare and mostly I get it right and ask 18-25 year olds only with some 25-30 year olds asked to because I'm human and I can't always tell
If in any doubt I ask for id

Svalberg · 04/07/2023 17:53

tootyflooty · 04/07/2023 17:19

It;s easy enough to carry ID. It's challenge 25 and not something the store have implemented, they do their own spot checks, but also have trading standards run checks, the membersof staff serving you are subject to a disciplinery and a personal fine if caught out, and that is ontop of any fine or penalty the company could incurr, you'd be suprised how hard it is to actually gauge someones age. It is always better for the staff to err on side of caution.

What ID would you accept from a 50 year old without a passport or driving license who's registered for a postal vote?

Manthide · 04/07/2023 20:37

Last year ds(19) had a bad accident on his bicycle. Dd1 (30) checked him over as she's a doctor (gynaecologist) and decided he needed the hospital. Afterwards she went into Asda with him to buy paracetamol and she was asked for id. She doesn't look particularly young and though she had her car with her she didn't have id so wasn't allowed to buy it. Ds had id with him so he said he'd get it but was told he couldn't as he might give it to dd1 - he looked in a bad way at the time from the accident. She had to find another shop and ds had to go in on his own.

itsmellslikepopcarn · 04/07/2023 20:38

I’m 33 this year, with a baby face and hormonal acne, so I always get ID’d. I try and take it as a compliment.

JazbayGrapes · 05/07/2023 00:13

And this really is the root of the issue isn't it? People do not like being 'challenged' by someone they see as there to serve them.

People don't appreciate being inconvenienced. Let alone cashiers on power trips or "take it as a compliment" crap.
While its understandable re. alcohol/tobacco, but its completely idiotic when its things like plastic cutlery, scratchcards or "12" rated dvd because my child traipsed along or a friend doesn't carry a passport.

Ponderingwindow · 05/07/2023 00:20

You can get a holder that attaches to the back of your phone that will hold your id plus a couple of credit cards

you can also get something that isn’t much bigger than a key fob and will clip to your keychain and hold an Id.

Caramelsmadfuzzytail · 05/07/2023 01:40

I was asked how old I was when I was 33 and pregnant. The woman at the till thought I was 16!
Now at 51 I have so many grey hairs that it's bleedin' obvious I'm over 18.

Kd96 · 07/07/2023 09:06

I find it annoying that I get asked for ID for a scratchcard in tesco every single damn time but never asked for Alcohol 🙄

Azurebird · 07/07/2023 16:14

Co-op once refused to serve my then late 40s mum because she didn't have I.D, but did serve visibly heavily pregnant 20s me because I was carrying some I.D

JazbayGrapes · 07/07/2023 21:53

It is really one of these stupid senseless rules that annoy and inconvenience more people that it actually serves to save kids from drinking White Ace in parks.

tootyflooty · 12/07/2023 14:41

Svalberg -You can apply for a PASS card via the post office I believe, although to be honest, I would imagine unless you have a portait hidden in your attic you hopefully wouldn't get asked for ID 😀

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