To think 'think 25' is getting silly

[ChopSuey2]

I'm in my 30s. I might look late 20s on a good day but there is no chance I look early 20s. It seems like 'think 25' has now become 'is there any chance they could be 25?' when the whole point is making sure under 18s (or 16s, depending on the product) aren't being sold things illegally. You might think someone could be 25 but very clearly not under 18. If that's the case, why do they have to ID?

I usually carry ID so it's not a big issue but it seems ridiculous I get IDed more in my mid 30s than I did at 15!

AIBU to thinks shops should trust their workers to have some common sense and only ID people who there is actually a chance could be under 18 (people who genuinely look under 25).

I got refused for grenadine. It's fucking syrup but because it's kept in the alcohol aisle it flags up.

She might have done, I used to do it to some of my nastier ex-schoolmates. Mostly so (if they recognised me) they thought I didn't recognise them as they were just so inconsequential, but if they had no ID and it screwed them a bit, I certainly didn't mind. 😁

The posters in Tesco and many other shops say "Under 25? Please be prepared to show proof of age" - that is, if you ARE under 25 you should be prepared to show ID.

The posters do not say "is there a possibility that short-sighted Sandra on the checkouts might think you look under 25? If so be prepared to show proof of age".

I'm in my 30s, so I am therefore not required to carry proof of age according to those posters. Unfortunately the staff seem to be unable to read and comprehend the posters on occasions.

E.g. https://shop.accscheme.com/challenge-25-poster-for-age-restricted-products

I find it very reassuring, having recently been present while paramedics desperately tried to resuscitate a 13 year old vodka-drunk teen
Eh? Isn't that proof (no pun intended) that teenagers will find a way round the restrictions. Meanwhile, we'll inconvenience the legitimate purchasers...

You are hardly being harassed

Until you do the job you don't understand it's hard to judge age

I'm a cashier for a large supermarket chain and I regularly ask 25-30 year olds as it's hard to judge and many dress and look much younger
You can get annoyed about it but quite simply that's your problem not mine but it will be my problem if it's a test purchaser or I make a mistake.
The amount of fuss over a bottle of alcohol sometimes still amazes me 🤣

That's hilarious!

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ but you can appear under 25 so yes we ask

It's not always easy to judge and I'd rather be safe than sorry! Not my problem if you don't have I'd to show

When I worked in a chain pub 10-15 years ago, I was once asked by management why I hadn't IDd a girl. "I've known her since we were 4 and her date of birth is X" sufficed.

I did, however, have two instances where people I didn't know handed over ID belonging to people I did know. If I didn't personally know the person in the ID, they'd have got away with it. I distinctly remember the physics teacher reprimanding some girls from the lower 6th after she'd bumped into them in a nightclub and had had the dilemma of whether or not to have them ejected. Realising she had to deal with them for the rest of the year, she left them to it.

If anyone thinks that ID is stopping underage drinking, it isn't. They're all just borrowing ID from slightly older siblings and friends. It is essentially impossible to stop; the ID is legitimate and the photos often a couple of years out of date, black and white and slightly grainy. You've got no chance of telling the difference between same sex siblings.

But that's not what the posters say is it?

Why should your incompetence at guessing age be made my problem? Why should I start carrying a wallet for my ID, and a handbag for my wallet, just in case someone is unable to guess my age to within a decade? I'm almost double the legal age to buy alcohol! DOUBLE!

@Flopsythebunny the assistant was 28, my daughter was 30 so when she knew full well that she was well over 25, whg would she ID her?
In that case every single person should be ID'd. "Oh here's my old teacher. She taught me 20 years ago. I know her but I'd better ID her in case my job is on the line"

shops should trust their workers to have some common sense

It has nothing to do with trust. It has to do with the law and fines for selling to people who are underage (but may not look it).

I got ID’s trying to buy a bottle of wine to put in a stew. I don’t have any ID so they wouldn’t sell it to me. I was with my 18 year old son who had his ID, but they wouldn’t sell it to him, because he might be buying it for an underage person - yes, me, his mum…🤦🏻‍♀️

Incompetence 🤣🤣🤣
It's not always easy to judge age and yes occasionally I get it wrong and ask a 30 year old but most people I ask are 18-27 year olds

Inconvenienced because you can't have a bottle of plonk 🤣. I'd rather you be inconvenienced than risk my job. We are humans and not robots

That's the sort of excessive scenario that gives this policy a bad name.

It's really not meant to be applied like that

@Sussexcricket
Incompetence 🤣🤣🤣
It's not always easy to judge age and yes occasionally I get it wrong and ask a 30 year old but most people I ask are 18-27 year olds

Exactly! Nowdays we have amazing YouTube makeup videos and quality anti-aging products. There's some 14-year-olds who will easily pass for 20 and some people who are maybe 30 and might be lucky enough to look 18. I wouldn't risk my job on the off chance I might offend a 30-year-old who looks younger.

I've asked someone before who I thought was 25 but I had a doubt so I asked. They was 18 years old and that shows how hard it is to judge
I'm almost 30 and my colleagues thought I was 20-21 the other day
Age is subjective.
We aren't doing to it to piss you off but it's not always easy to know and I'd rather be safe than sorry and if that's annoys someone that's there problem not mine.
All over a bottle of alcohol 😂

Inconvenienced because you can't have a bottle of plonk 🤣. I'd rather you be inconvenienced than risk my job. We are humans and not robots

Of course it's an inconvenience - you're asking me to go home, get ID, and make a special trip back to the store to get the bottle of wine. I live in an urban area but that's still going to be 45 mins-1 hour once I've gone home, found the ID, driven back to the store, found the wine, queued for the checkouts again, and driven home once more. More if, as often happens in my local supermarket, there's a 30 minute queue for the checkouts.

On some occasions, I'll be on my way to a party and doing that would make me late.

If I wanted to buy a 'dine in' then it means I can't buy the rest of the dinner.

Once again - the posters don't say 'do you look under 25?', they say 'under 25?'.

You clearly feel entitled to waste my time. Why is that?

Yeah so if I think you look under 25 I'll ask you.
Yes we get it wrong sometimes but it's a bottle of wine not essentials 🤣🤷‍♀️
30 mins I think that's an over exaggeration.
If you know you may get asked just have id?.
I honestly don't care how annoying people find it.

I was in a shop yesterday with teen DS. He pointed out all the shaving things says you had to show id if you were under 25 but nowhere on the display did it say what age you had to be to be allowed to buy a disposable razor FFS. So he was left wondering, as a just turned 16 year old, of her was allowed or not.

It's because the penalties staff face for serving someone under 18 are extremely harsh.

We had think 25 when I worked in retail, and the council would do tests of our policy. The ramifications of serving someone under 18 includes:

Job loss
Fines
Prison time if the item you sold ended up hurting someone (so 16yo boy buys a knife, then stabs and kills someone, you could get in trouble too)
Store could lose ability to sell restricted items
Store fines

I know a someone from another store that failed the council test, and they were sacked.

Most of the risk is on the person selling the item, so if you look like you could be 25 or younger, you must prove you're over 18.

I'm 38, I get id'd all the time, buying baccy it's 4 times out of 5 I'll be id'd. I understand they have a job to do, and the consequences if they don't.

It doesn't matter if YOU consider it essentials - I have every right to buy the wine.

Even during lockdown there was no distinction between essential and non essential foods - all of them, including alcohol, were sold throughout. In Wales you couldn't buy a kettle in the supermarket but you could still buy wine.

Why should I start carrying a wallet for my ID, and a handbag for my wallet, just in case you are unable to guess my age to within a decade?

Your problem not mine if you don't want to carry id
What a hardship that is .

Think 25 isn’t silly but some staff who implement it have very poor perspective when judging someone’s age! Unfortunately they have to follow through with what they think. Also it can be difficult to tell how old some people are - I asked a young man for ID who looked quite old purely because he was wearing a school leavers top from the year before! He was 19 but looked a lot older.

As I said in pp, and say on every thread around this subject, alcohol licences come with conditions attached, a mandatory one is a challenge policy, no challenge policy = no licence.

Challenge 21 and more so 25 are considered by the licencing authorities, who grant the premises licence, best practice. And you are monitored. And if you break a licence condition by not adhering to it, there are sanctions which can be and are applied. An alcohol licence isn't a given, it costs money and you have to meet criteria to get one.
And you don't have to break the law to break a licence condition. If you have challenge 25, because that's what the people granting your licence advise and you don't stick to it, you break the terms of the licence and put it at risk. And no "I was using my common sense to keep the customer happy" is not a defence.

But many people, including those who work in the sale of alcohol, don't understand that point. Even arguing for ID they talk about the law etc, and it's correct, if you sell to someone over 18, but who is/looks under 25, no law has been broken, but under the terms of a licence that has challenge 25 as it's mandatory condition of having the licence, the terms of the licence have been broken. And there are concequences for that - and that's why businesses protect their licence by ensuring that their staff err on the side of caution.

Do I agree with it? No. Is that a defence when I'm caught doing it and the premises licence is under threat? No.

@senua

the police are the ones who control this, and they are not in the slightest bit interested in customer service or making customers lives easier, because their job is to oversee the sales of restricted items to the general public through licenced premises.
Can I make the obligatory "they should be out catching criminals" comment. They do love a soft target.

Where the police are concerned, I agree. Two coppers at the end of the bar nursing half a John Smith's each watching the bar staff like hawks aren't exactly inconspicuous either!
But it's the job of licencing teams to control the licences and make sure the retailers they grant are responsible.

I really don't care about someone's drinking habits, or who they're going to give it to, I really don't, that's their problem, or should be. Unfortunately the licence and the law makes me partly responsible for any idiocy that someone commits with or under the influence of alcohol I've sold to them. Make my life easier if people would just be allowed to take responsibility for their own idiocy where alcohol is concerned.

But if you were never asked for ID when you didn’t have it on you, you wouldn’t have the satisfaction of feeling victimised and then be able to go on a huge rant about it to anyone within half a mile. I see the professional victims are out in force on this thread. Fuck me. It’s such a none issue. If this is your biggest problem in life then I’d be v grateful.