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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this right to say?

82 replies

shhhhbaby · 03/07/2023 00:22

I've been seeing someone since January who got divorced a couple of years ago. He's made it clear he's not ready for a relationship but beyond that, he's not communicating with me at all. At the moment, I have no idea whether he means he doesn't want a relationship with me but he's using me as a placeholder until he finds someone he likes. Or he just doesn't have the mental capacity to have a relationship but he likes me and fancies me and maybe sees it working. My therapist told me to put my minimum requirements to him in a message to see if he can meet them. What do you think of this message below? Please don't be mean and tell me to fuck him off. I want to know about the message, not that he's a useless shit or I'm a nobhead. But if you're a post-divorced man, I'd welcome your thoughts more generally!!

You know, I think, that I really like you and love spending time with you and I really want it to continue. I feel like we have a connection and you make me feel calm and safe and happy. I'm more than happy to continue in the way that it is right now and I've never needed a relationship or a label. I've been on my own for a while and long enough to know I'm ok. Ive said that to you many times and I hope you believe me. I know you think I'm needy and generally I'm not actually but maybe this situation is making me so.

But I do need some clarity around what you can give and what you can't for me to make that judgement. I think I need to know whether this is just sex for you and filling a void whilst you look for something better.

And if not, and you want to keep seeing me cos you like me and you like spending time with me I want to continue because I like this and you add to my life right now irrespective of a label. There's that theory in peace negotiations (going back to my masters) about the maximum someone can give and the minimum someone can expect and do they overlap.

What I need isnt formalising anything. The minimum I need is basic communication like to know what I can expect from you. Telling me when you don't have capacity to see me or respond to my messages and just making it clear to me that youre just a bit busy or done in emotionally but you'll be in touch when you're ready or able or mentally equipped. I'd happy with that and I appreciate what your life is right now so I don't want to put pressure on you or make you engage when you can't. I just need to know you can't when you can't. Just with that, I'll know what to expect and that's fine with me. I really like being with you irrespective of any formality but with the caveat that I do need more honesty and communication so I know where I'm at.

Is that something you feel able to do?

OP posts:
Goodadvice1980 · 03/07/2023 08:24

I don’t like the sound of your therapist OP!

PurpleChrayne · 03/07/2023 08:38

Women waste so much time and energy on shite men. Just sack him off and forget about him! Jesus.

Hoppinggreen · 03/07/2023 08:41

I think you need a new therapist
That message is awful and will probably have him running for the hills
If he wanted to be with you he would and either save your therapist for actually therapy or get one who doesn’t fancy themselves as a writer of cheap romance novels

mynameiscalypso · 03/07/2023 08:43

I was in a very similar situation a few years ago with someone freshly divorced. Turned out he was seeing multiple women. When I didn't hear from him or when he flaked on something with me, he was generally with someone else. We weren't exclusive so it was fair enough although I wish he'd been more upfront about it.

Cosyblankets · 03/07/2023 09:50

PurpleChrayne · 03/07/2023 08:38

Women waste so much time and energy on shite men. Just sack him off and forget about him! Jesus.

Just because she wants more it doesn't make him a shit man.
He's been perfectly clear about what he can offer

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 03/07/2023 10:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Actually, @OwlBabiesAreCute has given you some of the best advice you’ve had on the thread. You just don’t want to hear it. You want big hugs and to be told it will all be fine, that you’re doing the right thing and deserve clarity. Even in your opening post you’re saying “Don’t be mean, I don’t want to hear this that and the other…” You don’t actually want advice, and your poor hard-done-by halo slips a bit when you dismiss anyone who doesn’t follow your rules as a “judgey cunt”.

The message is ridiculous, frankly. Your therapist is doing you absolutely no favours in indulging all this “He’s said he doesn’t want a relationship, but what does that mean though?!?” handwringing, aand certainly shouldn’t be encouraging you to send this man pages of self-help book speak. I think the point where the “run for the hills” alarm would hit top volume for most people is when you start comparing it to negotiating world peace…

Keep it simple. He’s said he doesn’t want a relationship - either accept it for what it is or tell him straight that you want more. I don’t think you’ll get the answer you want, but at least you’ll get an answer.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 03/07/2023 10:05

FiddleLeaf · 03/07/2023 07:57

YANBU to want clarity but I think you have it already and are choosing not to accept it. He doesn’t want a relationship with you and by that I assume he means all these heavy chats as well as commitment.

You’re spending a lot of energy on this situationship which is a bad sign. I would end it if I wanted more than your current setup.

This is it, 100%.

AutisticLegoLover · 03/07/2023 10:11

If this was the relationship for you there wouldn't be any need for clarity. He's told you he doesn't want a relationship with you/isn't ready so why are you settling for less than what you want?

Isheabastard · 03/07/2023 10:13

My only thought is that if he’s only using you for sex, he’s not likely to reply “yes, Im only in it for the sex”

Not sure how you get around that, unless you offer him a FWB situation. If he accepts, you will know exactly where you are.

Dont forget your opening message doesn’t need to lay all your cards on the table at once. You could achieve what you want perhaps by a series of clear and concise messages, which alter depending on his replies.

Best of luck. Sometimes no answer is in itself an answer.

ThursdayFreedom · 03/07/2023 10:29

@shhhhbaby

you need to find a better therapist, this one isn't working/helping.

Don't send your message, honestly, his eyes will glaze over almost immediately. It would be far better to talk to him than put those feelings/thoughts in writing.

however if you ignore that & go ahead, then send the version one of the gist replies wrote for you.

To be very blunt, if he felt a real connection with you, he'd be treating you better than this. He's 'using' you for sex & companionship when it suits him, on his terms, he doesn't want to commit to you (which he has , to be fair, told you). You've developed the feels, he hasn't.

I think you need to accept this isn't going to turn into a good relationship and move on.

no need to confront him, just be busy when he instigates a hook up.

there are better/more available/more interested fish out there.

Prettylittleroses · 03/07/2023 10:35

It’s a bit much op. Well a lot too much. I also don’t understand the need. He’s already told you clearly what he wants. Why do you feel the need to ask again and not accept it?

TheInterceptor · 03/07/2023 10:41

MavisMcMinty · 03/07/2023 01:43

Too long, I couldn’t read it all.

“Is this something you feel able to do?” sounds suspiciously like Rachel, after her 18-pages-front-and-back letter to Ross in Friends. Your options are a) say nothing, hope he starts to love you, enjoy all the sex in the meantime; b) ask him outright (not in a long letter imo); or c) accept he’s not that into you or playing games with you, and be too busy to see him again.

Both sides!

CantBeArsedOrAsked · 03/07/2023 11:07

Isheabastard:
...Dont forget your opening message doesn’t need to lay all your cards on the table at once. You could achieve what you want perhaps by a series of clear and concise messages, which alter depending on his replies...

Like in a face to face conversation? Much easier than agonising over how to word a text .

Randomiser13 · 03/07/2023 11:12

I actually really like your message but maybe that's because I'm someone who wants things clearly spelled out. And I tend to be wordy as well.

I think your message clearly states what you need and what you are willing to accept. He won't be able to say later he didn't understand your position. I think you can expect an adult to spend an additional two minutes to read a slightly more verbose message and get the gist from it (which I think is clear).

If you are asking for too little and are maybe too willing to accept scraps from him is of course a possibility but I don't think that is problem with your message. It is something to think about though.

diddl · 03/07/2023 12:47

I actually really like your message but maybe that's because I'm someone who wants things clearly spelled out.

Do you not think that he has already spelled things out by saying that he doesn't want a relationship?

Somethingsnappy · 03/07/2023 13:28

Isheabastard · 03/07/2023 10:13

My only thought is that if he’s only using you for sex, he’s not likely to reply “yes, Im only in it for the sex”

Not sure how you get around that, unless you offer him a FWB situation. If he accepts, you will know exactly where you are.

Dont forget your opening message doesn’t need to lay all your cards on the table at once. You could achieve what you want perhaps by a series of clear and concise messages, which alter depending on his replies.

Best of luck. Sometimes no answer is in itself an answer.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Avondale89 · 03/07/2023 13:37

Randomiser13 · 03/07/2023 11:12

I actually really like your message but maybe that's because I'm someone who wants things clearly spelled out. And I tend to be wordy as well.

I think your message clearly states what you need and what you are willing to accept. He won't be able to say later he didn't understand your position. I think you can expect an adult to spend an additional two minutes to read a slightly more verbose message and get the gist from it (which I think is clear).

If you are asking for too little and are maybe too willing to accept scraps from him is of course a possibility but I don't think that is problem with your message. It is something to think about though.

That message doesn’t clearly spell out anything. It’s confusing and contradictory. I’m sure it made OP feel better to write it, but it won’t elicit the response she’s looking for. I think she knows this deep down. No doubt she’ll keep wasting time with this man for another 6 months. We all
have to learn in our own time!

Softoprider · 03/07/2023 13:42

If you are dating someone so flaky and feel you need some sort of clarity you have to ask yourself and not him if you really need this sort of angst in your life OP

AppleCinnamonBagel · 03/07/2023 13:47

You've been shagging him for 6 months. If he wanted more he'd have said something by now. You're on different pages so if you want to have a relationship with a future in mind you might do best to cut ties before you get hurt. He wants a sex life, that's no problem but if you want more out of it than he does you'll never be happy.

Plus your letter is far too long. I hope you can find what you're looking for.

ManateeFair · 03/07/2023 13:53

OP, with the best will in the world, I don't think this is going to achieve what you want it to achieve.

It is very clear what the situation is. He has told you that he doesn't want a relationship and beyond that he doesn't communicate with you. You say he already thinks you are 'needy' for pressing him on this point, so I doubt a long and emotionally charged letter is going to hit the spot with him.

He has openly told you that he doesn't want a relationship. In his eyes, if he had to message you and explain himself every time he didn't want to talk or see you, it would become a relationship, regardless of what label you give it.

You say you are 'more than happy to continue as things are' but you're not, really, are you? You want something different, which is the sex and the dates but with more accountability and communication in between - in other words, you want what sounds very much like a relationship to me. All your talk of not needing a label and not minding if this is a relationship or not is just you trying to convince yourself and him that you're cool about this, in order to keep him.

He doesn't make you 'calm and happy and safe'. He makes you insecure. He won't tell you where you stand and you fret about not getting replies from him and he reacts by suggesting you are needy. If he made you feel 'calm and happy and safe' you wouldn't be needing to discuss this with a therapist, and you wouldn't need to be running your messages to him past people on Mumsnet to check if they are OK. You obviously want way more from this than he does and you are just trying to find a way to get that by stealth while outwardly pretending you're cool about the 'no relationship' thing. You deserve better than to be begging a man for the bare minimum he will offer you, especially when it's clear he'd be reluctant even to offer that.

Everything I've just said should actually be pretty obvious to your therapist, to be honest, and I'm surprised they haven't made these points to you.

ManateeFair · 03/07/2023 13:55

Dont forget your opening message doesn’t need to lay all your cards on the table at once. You could achieve what you want perhaps by a series of clear and concise messages, which alter depending on his replies...

I'm sorry, but this level of desperation to mould a situation into something it isn't, is incredibly unhealthy. Never has the phrase 'He's just not that into you' been more relevant. Jeez.

diddl · 03/07/2023 14:01

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that things are already clear.

No wonder people find relationships (or not!) so difficult when they don't (want to?) hear what they have been told.

changeyerheadworzel · 03/07/2023 14:08

If you want him to run for the hills send that message. answer you better to run for the hills yourself.

Persiana · 03/07/2023 14:09

I don't think it really says what you seem to feel. I would take a different and more assertive approach that meets your needs:

I've enjoyed spending time with you over the last six months, and have been content with the steady pace. However transparency and openness are important to me in relationships, no matter the stage, and the signs you are giving me recently are that you aren't able to give me that. So unless I am mistaken I think it's best we part ways? Happy to chat. Take care.

MavisMcMinty · 03/07/2023 14:15

@shhhhbaby - in your missive you are lying about how you feel and about who you are. Someone else put it as (I paraphrase) “trying to be a Cool Girl” - you’re trying to mould yourself into someone he’ll fall in love with. No judgement - Christ knows I’ve done it myself, many of us have, maybe men do it too, I don’t know.

But this particular man is being himself, doing his own thing, doing what he wants - don’t pretend to be something you’re not just to please him/change his view of you. If you aren’t right for him it’s futile to try to be.