Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

It's like talking to a brick wall. Google the stats if there's any real interest in whether or not private schools are for children from none wealthy backgrounds.
Spoiler alert - they are not.

I missed the scaling back. Although amongst his unconvincing attempt this morning he seemed to try to talk about it.

I agree with your post though

Some would rather not govern and instead sit on the guidelines being ideologically pure. For that contingent it’s got to be all their way or none of their way.
Too true. It's easy to stand on the soapbox claiming they are every so full of care and compassion for the poor, whilst conveniently ensuring they're never in a position to have to enact policies and deal with the real complexities of the issues.

Why look at the complex patterns that affect communities with long standing poor educational engagement when the alternative is to scream into the void that private schools are simultaneously educationally amazing, and so shit they don't prepare students for university or the real world and the parents just want to make friends with bankers and rule the world? The latter is much more attractive if your primary focus is on patting yourself on the back and ignoring that the situation is actually rather complex.

It was this:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/29/labour-hits-back-tory-attacks-plan-vat-private-school-fees

The manifesto states: “‘We will keep open the option of changing the tax status of independent schools unless their partnership work increases.”

This was in response to the figure being required, and after at least a year declaring his intentions. Built in get-out clause.

It goes without saying the majority attending will be wealthy - how else would they fund running the school in the first place?!

But the minority who attend on bursaries are not from wealthy backgrounds. Your facts are completely incorrect there

It's worth reading this article from 2019 when Labour had announced a policy of wanting to ban Private schools and the associated complications.

I know that the current policy is different, but many of the legal arguments remain.

Could Labour really ban private schools? - BBC News

I remember that.

He then later went on to say this in 2022: 'I think private schools add a huge amount to our country, I think there are very good private schools and there is no case for abolishing them.'

They're not going to ban private schools... they should start making state schools as attractive as possible to everyone though. That'd be a start.

That's the problem with having millionaires and billionaires in public office... it's almost like they don't care about the education, health and welfare of children of the people they claim to represent...

Show me the bursary policy from any independent school - one will do - which doesn’t target bursaries based on family income.
once again, bursaries are distinct from scholarships.

Mmmm yes, and they have no interest at all in getting anyone who does use public services to vote for them either.

I understand eton plans to go means blind, once in a financial position to do so?

You would support reinstating the assisted places scheme then? So would I. Someone suggest it to little Keir.

Mine had full bursaries for indie schools. We were on either top-up benefits or full benefits throughout their school years and live in a council house. It was cheaper than sending to the local state schools with ridiculous uniforms, pretending to be like the indies

You weren’t supposed to do that, you know. You were supposed to leave your children in the state schools to provide local colour for the children of people like the OP.😂

A state school trying to be aspirational? They really should know their place

Just pulled this off the website of one of the Private schools near me re Bursaries, in case it helps some posters to distinguish between Bursary and Scholarship 😉(FYI, the Scholarships - music, sport and academic - at this school are worth 5% of annual fees):

Both Entrance and Hardship Bursaries are means-tested using an application process through Bursary Administration Limited (BAL). On behalf of the School, BAL interview and assess each new applicant, generally with a visit to their home (by telephone under pandemic conditions), before assimilating the information into a short factual report and a sheet summarising the financial information from each application. The School’s Bursary Committee use the information from BAL to inform their decisions on the level of Bursary assistance to award each applicant. As part of the application process, parents will be asked for their consent for us to share their contact details and data with BAL.

The household income from all sources will be taken into account along with the value of monthly commitments, any investments, equity value in the home and level of mortgage. As a general rule, those with second/investment properties (unless it is their business/source of income), will preclude a Bursary being awarded. Likewise, a significant value of equity in the family home, a below average level of mortgage (related to earnings), any higher than normal levels of pension fund values, and more general lifestyle choices will all be factored into the Committee’s decision making.
The paperwork required to support an application consists of the following for each party to the application:

Most recent 3 payslips; most recent P60; most recent audited accounts/management accounts (as appropriate); most recent income tax self-assessment; Schedule D self-employment income declaration; 3 months’ bank/savings/loan statements; proof of value of investments; most recent pension and/or endowment valuation; any benefits letters; most recent mortgage statement/rental agreement; most recent contents insurance schedule; details of any legal financial agreements.

Some applicants have said they felt the process was intrusive and uncomfortable but in order to ensure our limited funds are prioritised we need to be rigorous in the means testing process.

The level of Bursary award for each pupil, which may be up to 100% in exceptional circumstances, will be reviewed annually through a means-tested review carried out by BAL (normally a desktop review). By recommendation of the Principal and at the discretion of Governors, a Scholarship or Award may be supplemented by a Bursary.

We've found one one of the 1%! It categorically proves that private schools aren't only for the elite, in fact, there is some really unfair 'privilege shaming' going on on this thread. Perhaps one day my great, great, great, great grandchildren children will get to wear the 'real' indie blazer and own a Lacrosse stick - we can only dream but only of course, if the VAT relief remains, which is looking likely If prestigious schools like Eton leads the way on its 'means blind' plans.

Anyone any idea what point this is trying to make? Lame attempt at satire? Anyone?

Exactly

Again, I’m going to ask the makers of unevidenced claims to find me one example - just one will do - of a school which does not target bursaries based on means.
they pretty well all publish their bursary policy on their websites so they shouldn’t be hard to find.
and once more for the hard of understanding- bursaries are not the same as scholarships!

It was 3 schools amongst my DC. Would I do it again with hindsight, 2 schools, yes, the 3rd no. At least the uniform was cheaper than the local state schools 🤔

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/digital-media/blog/scholarships-bursaries-means-testing-private-school/amp

St Paul’s School, a London boys’ school ever-present at the top of league tables, took the unusual step a few years ago of publicly declaring that it would consider bursary applications from families with an annual income up to £120,000.

the ‘transformative and life-changing’ bursaries tend to mean 100% or 100+% (sometimes called ‘110%’ because of the additional money for uniform and transport). In 2020, 6,509 children benefitted from one of these. That’s just 1.2% of all children currently attending private school and the majority of those are at large senior schools.

I don't understand how a school paying fees for less than 2% of students can be considered "a charity".
I'm not a lawyer but I can see loads of ways the clause could be changed. E.g. a charity has to exclusively provide services that are otherwise unaffordable, so only a part of the schools business could be called a charity. The rest would be a business. Or some kind of %threshold of services offered under "charity", higher than 2%.

Luckily Starmer is a lawyer so I'm sure he's figured out exactly how to do this.

if changes like that are brought in, schools won't want charitable status any more as it will damage their brand because parents want their children educated separately to most children, to a higher level. Money buys privilege.

Targeting bursaries on "means" and claiming an income of £120,000 is hard up is what we are referring to.
Top rate tax payers getting help to put their children in private schools. It's completely immoral when there are children from very disadvantaged backgrounds without the knowledge and network to apply for these things.

Then posters like you claim its "a serious allegation" to imply these schools aren't charities. Legally they are. But to the lay person in the street, they definitely are not.

Well exactly. I went to a comprehensive on the south coast. It had a very mixed intake but I don’t think I learned all that much about the lives of people from different backgrounds. I’ve probably learnt more about that from MN than from my school.

After year 7, we were put in sets. My friends were similar to me. There wasn’t that much mixing.

Children (like most of society) tend to hang out with people like them. My horizons were not broadened from being in the same form with people who spoke with the local accent - and theirs were not broadened from sitting in the same room as me.

so, you haven’t been able to find any evidence that bursaries are not awarded based on means, then.
I am genuinely at a loss to understand what could be wrong about a school in an expensive part of London, where cost of housing is high, setting wide means- based eligibility criteria. Surely it’s better, in your eyes, not worse, that they are so generous! How would it be preferable for them to be meaner about it??