To tell sister her parenting is alienating others

[OnionsAndLemons]

I think my sisters parenting is so extra, that whilst I believe your children should be your top priority, I think her reactions to thinks are out of proportion.

Example: we both think our children should not have to kiss/hug anyone they don’t want to. So I said to her 2 year old after a family meal out, ‘cuddle goodbye?’ Her 2 year old just stood there so I said ‘no?, Ok’ and stood up. My sister pipes in, talking to her daughter ‘we can say no auntie Kate can’t we, tell auntie Kate we can say no’. I was so embarrassed as it was in front of everyone, I said I was not pressuring for a hug. She said oh I know we’re just teaching her she can say no. I agree with the concept but she’d have learnt from the interaction with me alone she can say no.

My mum was doing my sisters 2 year olds nappy. She initially wouldn’t lie down for it and when she did my mum said ‘oh well done, good girl’ or similar. My sister said mum was overdoing it with the praise and asked her to tone it down as girls are taught to be obedient and she doesn’t want that. (Note: my mum treats my son exactly the same, lots of praise when he does as asked). She does this sort of thing with my mum a lot and my mum is feeling constantly criticised and untrusted. My sister told my about the nappy thing, expecting me to agree but I told her you can’t micromanage every interaction.

I have an isofix car seat for my son in my car and bought a cheaper one (but new and from a reputable place) for my mums car for occasional use. My son is the same age as my niece so they both fit in it. However my sister has told my mum her daughter is not to use it as it’s cheap and doesn’t rear face. She doesn’t feel it’s safe. But hasn’t bought one herself. Didn’t share cost with me when I suggested we buy one together they can both use. Has never learnt to remove her own car seat to put in my mums car.

These are a few example but I could go on. Next time she says something similar to me or tell me about something to do with my mum I feel like it’s all going to spill out.

All car seats sold in the UK are safe. To think otherwise is a marketing ploy!

It’s perfectly acceptable to use an approved car seat even though it’s cheap.

Yeh this. She’s your sister and you sound quite judgy instead of understanding.

Not if you value car safety it isn't. Lots of people forward face from 18m, doesn't make it safe.

Nope. Our regulations just haven't caught up with countries that value car safety.

Her mother is discussing her concerns about her daughter with the OP. Maybe she wants confirmation about how she feels? Presumably if the OP said, ‘I think it’s OK mum, sis is just a concerned parent, let it go’, then the mother would do just that.
Do you never discuss each other in your family?

All car seats sold in the UK are safe. To think otherwise is a marketing ploy!
All car seats sold in the UK should meet current UK minimum safety standards.

That's not the same as all car seats are safe.

There's been issues on some car seats having the buckles pull through the polystyrene back of a seat in the event of a crash.

Other issues with car seat safety were flagged by Panorama: https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/dangerous-child-car-seats-sold-via-amazon-flagged-by-bbc-panorama-azwQP9U7ZSHr

This one was also an issue but was kept for sale because it met the required Safe standard: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2809752/Parents-urged-replace-dangerous-child-car-seat-failed-crash-safety-tests.html

Seats that pass Swedish+ testing and other countries with higher safety standards are safer than seats that meet the UK minimum standards.

That one in the picture isn't legal in the UK and isn't sold in any brick and mortar store. If it is, you can report them because it is illegal to do so. The fact you can buy them direct from China online is a bit of a red herring. I do agree that people should be warned about these - but the OP is talking about an isofix car seat from a brand she recognises from a shop that does meet the legal standard. Not some flimsy piece of cloth used as a "car seat" in countries which have no legislation (and sold here unscrupulously).

Perfectly reasonable for OP to buy and use this for her 2yo. Also perfectly reaonable for the DSis to refuse and insist on a rear facing seat. The UK standards are actually fairly strict despite what some of the rear facing fanatics insist, the older standard is basically phased out now, and although yes you occasionally get seats which fail the advanced ADAC testing yet remain on sale, this is a rarity and car seat safety and standards are improving all the time, even the generic models. For example a lot of the "white clip" models that people lose their minds over on the car seat pages have done OK in crash testing when the isofix models are used. Not as good as good as a forward facing seat from a safety-focused brand, and definitely not as good as a rear facing seat, but still OK. It's up to individual parents to assess the risk level they are comfortable with. I do agree there could be better info about the benefits of rear facing - many people for example assume isofix is the biggest indicator of safety, when actually rear facing trumps basically every other metric. You can have a new regulation, isofix, i-size, side impact tested FF seat and it will still do worse than an old, basic, seatbelt fitted RF seat with minimal side impact protection.

But FF is not a death trap and people should not be shamed for making that choice.

Regardless of anything else, your sister is right about the car seat.

Why is she right? Taking it as read that the point about front facing doesn't need to be repeated for the zillionth time - if she doesn't want her child to use OP's seat, why is it OK for her to tell her mother that she mustn't go out when she's looking after her child, purely because the sister can't be bothered to supply a rear facing seat?

Rear facing is undoubtedly significantly safer in the event of a crash, no question. The research shows this to be true as well as physics; however on balance of risk for some children who get travel sick or get very distressed rear facing (and so distract the driver) forward facing is probably a better option.

That said of course she should supply the seat herself!

I don't understand the new way of going about things. Where are young mums getting these new ideas from? Having to ask a child for a cuddle and them being able to say no? I understand boundaries, but my dd and her oh are obsessed with rules and regulations with their child. I walk on eggshells the whole time because everything I do or say is scrutinised and pulled apart, even though I have brought up my own dc's and have 3 other gc whose parents are a lot more relaxed and are perfectly happy with my interaction. It's exhausting & my dh is starting to find excuses not to visit because he finds it so uncomfortable. He tried to raise it, gently, with our dd that they're a bit ott sometimes but got shot down. I actually worry for our dc because his cousins are allowed a lot more freedom.

She sounds like a PITA! But not much you can do

Personally I don't see the issue with teaching children they have autonomy over their own bodies and don't have to give relatives or whoever cuddles if they don't want to, I agree though that some make a much bigger deal of it that it becomes a bit counterproductive but of course children should be able to say no and not feel pressured.

How does that go when they say no to something vital? A vaccination or medical treatment?

It goes fine, there's a stark difference between the expectation that you have to cuddle people just because they want to and that sometimes we need to do things which benefit us (even if they aren't pleasant). Funny enough DS was never forced to hug and knew it was fine not to, yet could well cope with needing quite a few invasive medical procedures and all of his imms.

Things have changed in last 10 years I think. Mine were both forward facing once they grew out of the carry-seat as well and that was standard. I knew one mum with a rear facer which I think she has to import from Scandinavia or something and I thought it was a bit OTT but I know it is much more common now. They are much safer. And the DC do have to bend their legs but they are not squished.

Of course the car seat is safe. It wouldn’t be sold otherwise

There are different levels of safe though aren't there. The minimum regulations are actually pretty low, and not all seats are equal. In a high speed collision if a child is rear facing the force will effectively push them back into the seat, if they're forward facing it'll throw them forward in the first instance even with restraints on that's enough to do a fair amount of damage. There's no need to judge those who forward face at all, but it's also not necessary to deny reality and the research.

As for hugs kisses etc it has become expected which it never was when I was a child. Just not to be rude and to be polite. That seems to have gone out the window. I would never have expected my children to hug or kiss adults as they were leaving but my dil expects hers to. So we are treated to stiff performances, I always feel like saying you don’t have to kiss me but I don’t want to confuse them further. One of them refuses all which ends up feeling like a rejection. And now they are being taught to reject. Bonkers.

This is a very confused post. I agree DIL shouldn't expect her kids to hug and kiss everyone but why are you feeling rejected when one of your grandchildren refuses to kiss anyone?

And I find it's the opposite actually, most kids are given more autonomy these dats and not expected to kiss everyone or give cuddles. It was much worse in the 80s when I was a kid.

Omg she sounds like me! 😂 11 years later and no regrets. I was definitely more chilled with my 2nd and I never let anyone else care for/change nappies. I think that's the difference: if you feel very strongly about specific ways of parenting, you have to do it all yourself. You can't really expect other people to do it exactly as you would. You have to either accept that these small interactions ('good girl' etc) aren't going to do any major damage and let it go, or you do it yourself.

Oh come on, there's a difference between getting a health procedure done by a trained professional and having uncle tommy's grubby lips and hands linger a bit too long on you. That said I did encounter an overly handsy doctor during my puberty as my body was just filling out, children back then (or at least I did) just let adults do whatever where we liked.

I know those are extreme examples but in general, I don't think it really hurts to teach children that they own their bodies.

It ranges from extreme scenarios like child/teen molestation, to simply a teen or young adult having the self respect to state how they feel to their partner rather than go along with things.

The only thing it hurts is the adults' ego 😂 I do agree you must still turn people down politely but if the adult has their ego hurt, that's nothing to do with the child. It hurts me when Brad Pitt doesn't find my lunging at him physically irresistible too!

Sorry reply above was to @Blossomtoes

Oops I did want to add that I don't think how the sister went about it at all was polite though