To wonder if Labour actually will be any better?

[Baabaagreysheep]

I think like most people I am keen to see the back of the current bunch, but I am not confident that anything will massively change for the better. Maybe that’s a bit pessimistic, but I feel that while some things will improve some will get worse - and some sort of at the same time, so I’m expecting my salary to go up but also my workload to go up!

Thinking back to when Labour were last in power it was another world, really. Interested in views.

Ditto charging for GP as in ROI

Full reform isn’t even necessary but people won’t vote for things that do work elsewhere

I need a political party who will not only be fiscally viable, but who will protect my daughters, not make life for them worse by allowing men access to them whenever they feel like it.

This.

The Welsh government are proving Labour is an utter shambles.

Waiting lists for mental health services are over two years long. We can’t access life saving treatments for our children that are freely available in England. We can’t be transferred to England. I actually got told to go private by the NHS consultant. my friend in England and myself both needed breast screening (categorised the same “urgent”). She got seen in 4 weeks. I got seen after 6 months.

There is no transparency over PHSE and parents no longer have any right to remove children on religious or other grounds.

The Welsh Government is spending multiple millions turning all residential roads 20mph. They have banned building new roads to reduce pollution although this actually increases pollution.

They are not fit for purpose and Labour I’m Westminster will be no different.

When it comes to healthcare we get very parochial in our discussions. Every developed western economy with an aging population is facing the issue of affordability of universal healthcare, though, and I’m not sure anyone has the answer to that yet.

I don't think it was. I have a long term health condition so have been going to outpatient clinics for 40 years. It's been adequate at best over that time.

Time to get the evidence out again.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/summary-high-performing-nhs-progress-review-1997-2010-ruth-thorlby-jo-maybin-kings-fund-april-2010_0.pdf

When posters ask how can they be worse, Labour in Wales shows how

Exactly. I hate the conservatives, but Labour is currently proving itself to be worse.

Before anyone defends the Welsh government by saying Westminster controls the purse - it’s simply not true. Welsh government has the power and authority to raise taxes in Wales independently of Westminster. The funds are mismanaged and spent on insane schemes and constant re-jiggling of health boards.

Time to get the evidence out again.

So my personal experience isn't evidence? Anecdotal, yes, but still primary evidence.

If I look back over the last 30 years, I can't think of many NHS experiences that stand out as great, or even good.

I had a cancer scare last year - online GP appointment the same day, went to the hospital two days' later, saw the consultant, had the tests, back to the consultant for the all clear and out an hour later.

Similar for a hip replacement. Picked my surgeon and had the operation a few weeks later. I'm quite young as far as joint replacements go, so I'm pretty sure I'd have been waiting at least two years for it under the NHS.

Yes, I'm lucky to have private healthcare but this is the experience in other European countries with a part pay/subsidised. We should be demanding the same standard and I'm sure it would make for better working conditions for NHS staff.

In the R o I . Charging for GP is highly contentious here. It's free if you're an OAP or on sickness or unemployed. Many people are in a scheme called VHI - voluntary health insurance.

Problem - what if you are working but can't afford VHI. This was my fate at one point. I knew a bloke who used to get antibiotics from his brother who is a vet. Not ideal I think you'd agree. Charges ,OK , but not a flat fee of £50.

I'm sure the Conservatives 13 year track record with public services in England will speak for itself.

So my personal experience isn't evidence? Anecdotal, yes, but still primary evidence.

Anecdote isn’t evidence. As so many posts about the NHS show recollections may vary. Inconvenient, isn’t it?

Counterpoint: We get our workforce back from Europe.

And yes, your example IS anecdotal. Until about 2010s, the NHS was actually performing very well. I work with significantly larger amounts of evidence than your solitary example so the data is there to back it up. The NHS has been on a steady decline since about 2011, which has accelerated at speed since Brexit. There are many factors to blame such as an aging population, COVID and especially successive Tory governments' deliberate dismantling through lack of investment (not just of the NHS but other public services) but Brexit is the biggie. However, you don't want to hear that do you, it's all the fault of checks notes Welsh Labour and Gordon Brown.

Do we want to subsidise postal services as a nationalised company? Or should it adapt as other private companies have to? Which it has by cutting the cost of parcels and offering a free home collection service. There's plenty of things the private sector runs well and the state runs badly.

What, like the rail companies?

My experience with private health care through work is they have used various policy exclusions to avoid assessing my sons learning issues.
I also can't find anyone I can pay separately to assess him as all the private clinics have closed their waiting lists.
He is on the list for NHS treatment but it will take years. And I've already been trying various avenues to get him seen privately for 18 months

The health system is borked, private and NHS. And yes that's underfunding by the conservatives causing more and more people to go private where there isn't the capacity either.

My experience of the private healthcare system (also through work) has been excellent; same day pregnancy scans, same day physiotherapy appointments, next week consultant appointments, getting to the bottom of problems after years of getting nowhere with NHS GP.

That’s the thing with anecdotal evidence; everyone’s is different.

There are many factors to blame such as an aging population, COVID and especially successive Tory governments' deliberate dismantling through lack of investment (not just of the NHS but other public services) but Brexit is the biggie. However, you don't want to hear that do you, it's all the fault of checks notes Welsh Labour and Gordon Brown.

I think you're confusing me with someone else, I've not mentioned Labour in Wales. Yes, to Gordon Brown if we're talking about poor selling of assets. He sold 400 odd tonnes of gold at $275 per ounce and it's now over $1,900. His pre announcement of a staggered sale pushed down the price and was economically incompetent.

I'd agree that the Conservatives have made economic mistakes, particularly during the pandemic. But that's my point, neither party have a flawless track record. The Conservatives chose austerity under Osborne, Labour high spending under Blair and Brown. High spending becomes a problem when you hit an economic downturn and debt starts to rise (the Conservatives take their share of the blame too on this front).

But I don't think public services are always run more efficiently than private services. And the NHS should be fundamentally reformed rather than just chucking more money at it. My private and NHS healthcare experiences are chalk and cheese - over both Labour and Conservative administrations. Why are we so unwilling to look at other European countries to see if their part-private models could deliver better outcomes for patients and staff?

It’s funny isn’t it, that tories are happy to blame global factors (pandemic, Ukraine etc) for their economic failings, all the while pointing to the economic failures of the last labour government, failing to mention the global economic crash that they fell victims to. They also ignore the fact that before that crash, the Brown and Blair administrations presided over an unprecedented period of growth. Funny isn’t it? And I don’t mean funny ha ha.

that they fell victims to

That is very gracious. How much was the benefiting from the global boom and exposure to risk that all led to the huge crash part of it?

If they can be hit by a crash they can benefit from the boom, but exposure via reliance on risky financial markets was part of the hit

Explaining how a part-private model will improve things in reality might be a start, otherwise these claims all come across as ideological. There is no point talking about other countries and pretending anything done in the UK will remotely mirror their systems, as any changes in the UK must be made from our starting point, not some mythical vacuum where you can start again from scratch -particularly if the changes are under the control of a Tory Government, in which la la land, public money can be cut back and workforces culled whilst simultaneously trying to force through unfunded structural changes, all the while blaming anything but Government stupidity for the inevitable cock up created. Ideological privatisations and nationalisations have done nothing but prove either can appear to be relatively successful and either can be inefficient. Essential services and infrastructure are always most at risk of mismanagement, due to the fact the taxpayer always has to bail them out, regardless, making them at high risk of inefficiency or other mismanagement, just because they have to be kept going somehow, regardless. Privatising such services and infrastructure enables undeserved profit making for a tiny minority at the expense of an entire country.

My parents were invited to a retirement tax planning event at a nice hotel with wine and nibbles. They ended up with wills where the first parent to die half of the estate was put into trust. Any saving made on inheritance tax was offset by legal fees. It wasn’t specifically to avoid care home fees as there was a clause to allow care home fees to be paid from the trust but it wasn’t needed.

@SunnyEgg and before rye pandemic the tories participated in a long policy of austerity and under investment - plus the dogmatic madness of Brexit - which has put Britain in a far worse post pandemic economic position that other comparable economies.

My Mum’s half of the house and her accounts were put into a trust when she died, so only my Dad’s share will be forced to go on his care home fees, should it come to that. He/they could afford my Mum’s last 18-months in a care home from their income and savings, so I daresay that would/will cover his too.

He’d rather go to Dignitas, but we don’t always have that option, depends on the diagnosis.

Don't think I could afford labour to be in power.
I can't afford to pay more tax to increase the wage of those that already earn more than me.

I don’t think I can afford to have the Tories continue in power. I’m in good health, touch wood, but as I’m getting older I worry who will look after my health, my MIL’s elderly care, my grandchildren’s education.

Truss has done unspeakable damage to the economy and we’re all the poorer for it. On top of Brexit and all the other shit and corruption.

Nope

Conservatives aren’t supposed to expand the state like Japanese knotweed.

For Labour thats the brief.

I definitely can’t afford to have the Tories in power. I’m old enough to know that health wise the only way I’m going is down. I really, really don’t want to end my days under a Tory government. It’s incredibly depressing to think I’ve lived most of my adult life with them in charge.