Rwanda ruling

[OwlBabiesAreCute]

Suella Braverman says today's Supreme Court ruling against the UK government's plan to send immigrants to Rwanda is a disappointment for most people.

Not for me it isn't.

AIBU? Am I in the minority?

@chupachucks more like questions you don't have an answer to... 😂

Yep keep believing that 🥱

So @chupachucks , do you approve of the Rwanda policy even though it has thus far been found to be unlawful, and even the government cannot confirm that it is legal under international law?

(That was a question, by the way).

Better off to look at figures whilst considering labour shortages, plus a fair amount was Ukraine and HK schemes

The government could quite easily smash these criminal gangs apart if they wanted too

I doubt this is the case otherwise we’d not see similar issues in the Mediterranean. No country has an easy solution.

Some, as in pp have used tough solutions but without that you’ll get smugglers and worse - see Greece incident.

What's the difference between a Ukrainian asylum seeker and a Syrian asylum seeker? Why does one deserve a safe route but not the other?

Either way the point still stands, illegal migration makes up a small fraction of total migration and could be dealt with by creating safe routes without much or any impact on overall numbers.

As to the second point I think we'll probably never agree on this. But to me the reason we see similar problems is the same as the reason here, it's simply not a priority of governments to stop it happening from happening as it is one of the most useful diversion topics around.

How is it that the government can track and intercept terror cells or drug smugglers moving individual people or packages across the globe via air, road and sea or even lone individuals attempting to buy banned products on the dark web (a guy in my town was caught and jailed for trying to buy a gun)? But they can't even break one smuggling gang (who operate primarily out of the UK and have been interviewed by news outlets) moving groups of people from the same places in northern France to southern England, by boat, across one of the busiest and most widely monitored stretches of water in the world? Seems a bit odd.

You'd think given this is one of the governments top 5 priorities they'd be putting some effort into actually catching the gangs responsible no?

Do you really think stopping this is easy?

If it is why did it take so much by Aus to get numbers down, and why do we see numbers drown in the Med

It really is unrealistic imo to think this is not a major issue, and one that will continue to grow as mass migration increases.

Currently things feel tragic enough that Obama makes statements on the Greek situation, when the number of boat tragedies increase to a higher amount the political landscape is changeable.

If people look forward and envisage what the changes will be over the next five to ten years then they’re getting closer to how messy it will be.

I’m less concerned about any politician’s promise on this - which incidentally could cost votes / GE if it continues so yeh I reckon if it could be fixed they would - and more what happens when we really see border pressure. What citizens do, what governments do.

If we lived in a world where countries were stable, then fine, but we don’t as climate and increasing volatility is fairly assured.

So I’d just say on these threads think about what is likely to change with migration over next five to ten years as places become more inhabitable.

I mean, this is an answerable question, whether people think that or not. Some good research would give the answer I'd think, if anyone cared to do it.

My guess - I think many people see a need to deal with all kinds of immigration issues, and I think are maybe willing to see a different approach then has been used in he UK, and Europe generally, in recent memory. Or maybe better to say, think something new is needed, even if it requires rethinking our assumptions about the ethical implications.

But I think a lot were somewhat skeptical of the Rwanda plan specifically.

Braverman said “a lot of people will be disappointed”, yet later that evening not a single member of the hand-selected majority-Tory-voting BBC Questiontime audience raised their hand when asked if they supported the Rwanda policy.

Yay for Exeter!

@chupachucks you need to look up what strawman means - @pointythings IS answering the points and is perfectly clear.

Just because you don't agree doesn't mean the other person isn't answering the question.

Even though the Gov has failed at this Labour don’t seem to have a magic answer and if they don’t sound a bit more committed or tougher they’ll lose votes at the next election.