What do you think London will be like in 10 years?

[kundalini88]

London feels like it has changed so much over the last 3 years, let alone the last 10+. Although there are a lot of great things about London, I have seen a lot of decline, some of it quite rapid- it's harder to get a GP, dentist, it's much more crowded, it's a lot more dirty and polluted, everything is much more expensive than even a few years ago, transport is less reliable, dirty and expensive, there seems to be a lot more crime and antisocial behaviour, a lot of the nice things about London have disappeared such as cheap music venues, quirky shops that had been in existence for years. Everything seems to be about making money rather than just existing for people to enjoy. I feel like it is a great place to live if you are rich and comfortable or have secure housing, but otherwise it's just a constant struggle. I'm just wondering what the next 10 years will bring? Do people think it will get better (possibly under a Labour Government) or decline more?

Couldn't you say the same about most of the UK?

London is well served for NHS dentists compared to many other parts of the country
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/25/england-nhs-dentists-dental-deserts-data

London has a wide range of hospitals with all specialisms

London schools outperform the national average

https://educationblog.buckingham.ac.uk/2020/07/29/why-are-schools-in-london-so-successful-by-barnaby-lenon/

And you should try Northern rail from Manchester to Leeds or Liverpool if you want to see how public transport has declined!

I agree various quirky things in central London have gone but the upside is that outer London areas that had very little in terms of interesting bars, mini breweries, cafes restaurants, gig venues - eg Walthamstow, Forest Gate, Leyton, Crystal Palace are all way better now in terms of your options for eating out than ten-fifteen years ago.

Housing costs and renters rights are a major problem, of course. But that is true in many places in UK - Cornwall has barely any rentals available for people to actually live in, for example

You can find NHS dentists in London but they may be a few miles away from where you live so you have to travel to them.

Unlike other areas of the country thanks to public transport it is annoying but possible.

Empty if Sadiq Khan has his way.

London has always been a tough city for some people, particularly those on lower incomes, to live in. The halcyon days have never existed. The reality is that people in every decade remark on how much worse it is than it was 10/15/20 years ago, but that’s because they’re different people to who they were 10/15/20 years ago. As a 44-year-old parent of tweens trying to buy a house in a naice street with a good school catchment you have different concerns to when you were a 29-year-old career girl who cared more about how close the nearest pub was and living near all your friends, and different concerns again to the 18-year-old student who arrived at Victoria Coach Station for the first time excited for the bustle and grime and edginess and your first steps into independent adulthood.

“Everything is much more expensive” - well, yes. If we want a London Living Wage then that’s going to be reflected in ticket prices and entry fees and the cost of dinner out. You can’t have one and not the other.

London is always "too crowded" or "empty because everyone is leaving" according to threads on living there.

On the whole, I think the centre has got duller (although it's still the most interesting city in the country) but the outer areas have got much more interesting.
More working from home means outer areas are supporting more cafes and restaurants, both for lunch/coffee when WFH and because people are more likely to socialise locally in evening if they are WFH.

Arrived in London 44 years ago aged 19.

It was far less polluted - in terms of air quality - than it was when my Dad was that age just after the war. Far less smoke and no proper smog at all.

For a lad from the provinces the buses, never mind the tube, were a revelation. No need to remember a timetable or whether it was a 22 (direct) or 22A (all around the Wrekin). It just turned in a few minutes and you were at Aldwych in another 20.

Can't remember about doctors/dentists as I was young, fit and probably immortal!!

Transport now is, on the whole, better and so, massively, is air quality.

Agree about small/specialist shops though. You used to be able to buy a fountain pen or a loft ladder from shops on Kingsway. Now it's all coffee places...

i don't know. I love my city my whole life and family are here and i don't want to live anywhere else :(

DP wants to emigrate though but i'm seriously to interested unless family are around.

I really hope its just a part of the boom and bust

everyone is moving south of the river as well!

Probably more built up. They appeared to be trying to build over every tiny patch of grass that they could find.

The unique feel of different areas is being eroded by homogeneous high rise buildings and chain stores that you could find anywhere. They have pulled down horizontal slums and are creating huge swathes of vertical ones instead, which are ridiculously expensive for what they are, so are not solving the housing crisis. I'm sure London will continue to be exciting and vibrant, but that's no longer as much to do with it being a fashion, retail, music or cultural Mecca anymore.

No idea but I’ve been in areas that have gone up over time over the last couple of decades

Schools have improved and instead of mc parents leaving for say Surrey as they did back then, they stay. Maybe move next to an outstanding school instead.

If private schools become more out of reach under Labour due to VAT there might be more of that going on.

Apart from schools in pp London will thrive. Maybe for different people than those who have now gone off it, but the young, and new will take the opportunity.

It’s not the city it once was. It’s shame. A city should be a mix of all kinds of people not just the ultra rich and the very poor. A city which can’t affordably accommodate its taxi drivers and teachers and nurses is a city which is failing. There is so much more that politicians could do but they choose not to. Sadiq Khan is useless from what I can see.

Parts of it were quite bad in the 90s but then they improved a lot. I remember learning in my geography class that living in inner London was bad (I grew up in z2 😆).

I think it's become more polarised. I went to school & there was quite a spectrum of backgrounds; racially & socioeconomically. My old road is now mostly white English whereas the vast majority were immigrants. House prices are prohibitive to young people & young people bring creativity & innovation.

I think the two things that will have a big impact are falling school rolls. This is happening everywhere but definitely a problem in some London boroughs. Budgets are based on headcount's & you don't want reduced budgets. I think the desirable schools will become even more prized & some areas will become less attractive.

Wfh/hybrid working - why spend so much when you can have more a bit further away.

The things I hate about London is the traffic & pollution.

& defo more homogenous whereas I think London stood out from other cities by being so individual.

I grew up in London but left almost 10 years ago after first child and not being able to find a way onto the property ladder or into a bigger rental. It's worked out for the best, albeit I'd love to be nearer my family - all my friends and family in my generation have moved out. So I can't really comment, but sounds like similar situation to what I've read about in new York. Polarisation of wealth and poverty, not much room for the middle. But I think the loss of identity on high streets isn't unique to London. Reminds me of bill bryson's Lost Continent which is a commentary on every American small town now looking the same - same shops, lack of localism.

Just an ever widening gap if rich and poor. It’s not sustainable. Where are waiters/cleaners/retail workers and others on a lower wage supposed to live? These people keep services ticking over. I grew up in Zone 6. It used to be a quiet place where a couple could buy a house and raise a family on the wage of, a cab driver, for example. Now those same houses are 800k to 1mil plus. I don’t know anyone on an average wage that can afford that-but yet the houses are selling. I don’t know who can afford to buy them, apart from the people on Mumsnet! London is fast becoming a playground for the rich and for tourists. I watched the area where I grew up become gentrified. An ordinary high street went from a place with newsagents, launderettes and a few corner shops to rows of expensive juice bars, brunch spots and coffee shops. When I went back for a visit I counted four super cars; a Ferrari, two Porsches, and a lambo.

I think it's much quieter than before Covid, only really busy on Saturdays

Air quality seems good, much fewer cars in the Center. And I think Sadiq Khan is doing a good job - it's a very hard decision to increase the congestion charge zone but necessary for the environment and air quality

Loads of free things to do, but obviously eating out is double now (as it has to be to support people being able to live here)

A bigger sh*t hole then it already is

I would agree with this on the whole. Was in Richmond on Monday, my first trip into London since Covid, and I was struck by how much I liked it (I've been before in 2019 but it seems to have gone from strength to strength), how busy it was and the variety of shops. Would love to live somewhere like that but sadly can't seem to earn enough.

The thing about gentrification and the loss of quirky shops and cheap venues is that these things don’t just suddenly happen for no reason. We used to have a local pub about a hundred or so metres from our house. DH and I went there often, because we are lazy and the drinks were cheap, but also because when we were renovating our house it was somewhere to go when we needed a break, had nowhere to cook, and didn’t have a working toilet, and we got to know the staff and regulars. It had character. Many of the regulars were old men who’d been drinking in that pub since they were young men. There was a man who I’d guess was about 108 years old, always in a smart suit, who claimed to have personally known the Krays, as lots of 108-year-old men in London who habitually wear smart suits to the pub seem to have done. The pub closed down at the start of this year because of lack of custom. People apparently don’t want to drink in a local pub with character, or talk to a man who knew the Krays, even if the drinks are cheap. They’d rather walk ten or fifteen minutes away and drink at the fancy chain gastropubs. But those people can’t then lament when London no longer has any quirky places where you can drink alongside old men who knew the Krays, and the only option is a £14 glass of pinot amid polished copper and fancy hardwood which poorer people can’t afford to have.

And the umbrella repair shop! I expect that is long gone.

@ComtesseDeSpair that's so true, there was an Italian deli near my in-laws that had been there decades. The sandwiches & salads were amazing but no one new to the area seemed to use it. It defo looked dated & wasn't insta worthy but who cares. They closed up & a new coffee/sandwich shop opened that is very instagram. The food is twice the price & not as nice but it's super popular 🤷🏻‍♀️

I've lived in or near London for nearly 50 years. IMO many areas are better now than when I was growing up (in terms of crime, dog shit on the streets etc).