What do you think London will be like in 10 years?

[kundalini88]

London feels like it has changed so much over the last 3 years, let alone the last 10+. Although there are a lot of great things about London, I have seen a lot of decline, some of it quite rapid- it's harder to get a GP, dentist, it's much more crowded, it's a lot more dirty and polluted, everything is much more expensive than even a few years ago, transport is less reliable, dirty and expensive, there seems to be a lot more crime and antisocial behaviour, a lot of the nice things about London have disappeared such as cheap music venues, quirky shops that had been in existence for years. Everything seems to be about making money rather than just existing for people to enjoy. I feel like it is a great place to live if you are rich and comfortable or have secure housing, but otherwise it's just a constant struggle. I'm just wondering what the next 10 years will bring? Do people think it will get better (possibly under a Labour Government) or decline more?

Kent isn't London.

My office cleaner lived in Kent for a time. The commuter fares made her realize that she was better off moving to Harrow which she did.

Also a lot of immigrants now live in London and they are used to much more cramped conditions. People have always lamented how expensive London is but still stay. My MIL stayed in a 1 bed flat with 3 kids in the 1990s in London, was WFH and low income, but is still living in London!

I am sorry but you can't say transport in London has got worse. It's pretty damn good. Try having to deal with TransPennine express who cancel most of their trains.

I agree with this. Almost everything the OP lists is better in London than the rest of the UK.

Also, London is significantly less polluted than 10 years ago due to the rise in electric vehicles, the congestion zone and the ULEZ zone.

The public transport is also as cheap and reliable as it always has been (and significantly cheaper and more reliable than the rest of the UK).

The one thing that seems to have got worse in the last 3 years is the amount of homelessness and the antisocial behaviour that goes with the very high number of homeless addicts. The government seems to be doing absolutely nothing about it.

Mental health care is on its knees nationally - definitely see more people which clear mental health problems in distress on the streets now compared to four or five years ago.
I thought the same about Manchester on a recent visit - a lot more than a few years ago.
It's a disgrace how poor mental health care is now - one of the many but major sins of the government.

It’s so much nicer cleaner and safer than I remember it in the 80s. King’s Cross, soho, Euston were all well dodgy. There’s amazing places to eat, the south bank is great, the galleries are amazing….

but the who,e of the uK has a services, infrastructure and dirt problem. And sleeping on the streets coming back. There was a point it was unusual to see someone sleeping on the streets…not now. Also seeing people openly high on stuff ritght by Oxford street.

Anecdote but my mentally ill friend who was homeless for a year (due to being evicted by her ex and her manic spending- she was sectioned four times) is being rehoused and is moving into a room in supported living accomodation in London! It's a huge relief and she is doing so much better..

One thing I noticed is that all the councils she had some sort of association with kept arguing about who was responsible for her

I came to London 10 years ago. I still love it, I also love how much more diverse (ethnically) it has become.

The NHS has gotten much worse as has TFL but it is reflective of a larger national problem. I think going forward, London would become less white but I don't really see that as a bad thing (i am not white but DH is). I think that London is still very attractive to ethnic minorities (and new immigration) because we have our communities and shops that we need here, and tbh the pastoral dream of middle england doesn't appeal to me lol. I think London housing will get relatively cheaper compared to other parts of the UK (less of a London premium) except in zone 1 and that's a good thing for me as I am planning to buy a bigger flat. Doesn't mean it will necessarily get cheaper in the long term in numerical terms but other places in the uk would become more expensive. I foresee average house in Manchester being £550k-600k in today's money and outer London(zone 4-5) settling at around £650k (after a dramatic house price crash). Flats in London will settle at £400k-550k (bigger or in nicer areas), flats in Manchester around £330k or so. SE and SW would basically be equal to London prices

So still more expensive but not massively so. It would be very hard for lower earner everywhere though cos there would be few places which are not expensive.

Historically there has been a gap between London and the provinces but nothing like the gap today. It's not sustainable. House prices in London will fall but at the same time has been stagnant for a long time. The rest of the country will catch up in terms of prices..
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Unliveable. Crowded, dirty overdeveloped.

Even worse.

Always desperate to make that comment aren't you dear?

I dunno. I was in Paris recently and the metro made me realise how clean and efficient the Tube is.

I’m so pleased….I have no idea why, since I don’t even own an umbrella,,still less a broken one.

just nostalgia , I suppose. Thank you.

New York did the same for me - the tube is sparkling clean and reliable in comparison.

Hasn’t Trans Pennine asked people not to use their trains?

I live in Sheffield and want to visit friends in Manchester. I have no confidence that Trans Penine will get me there.

The flood risk map was posted above. It's not very reassuring but that's the reality unfortunately. 'They' are doing fuck all and have no idea how to approach the issue other than managed decline - just like all the other issues, whether climate-related, economic, or political affecting the country.

Yep, Croydon is one of the boroughs dumping council tenants in naice parts of Surrey. It's a bit of a culture shock on both sides to say the least, especially in schools.

Yeah people who bash TFL have no idea how much worse it is in other large cities!

There's currently a petition to have TFL take over Southeastern trains within London, I really wish they would.

I honestly wonder where all these people who describe London as a "shithole" actually live? Where are these utopias where there is no crime, complete equality in relation to affordability of house prices, excellent education, great transport links and vibrant culture? Can we all move there too please? (or are we barred on the grounds that we've lived in London).

London has plenty of failings, for sure, not going to argue with that. But do you people who describe a city of 10 million people as a "shithole" really mean to say that the seat of the government, the cradle of several millennia of world history, with tens of the world's best museums and theatres, some of the UK's best parks and open spaces, shopping to rival anywhere in the US and the best restaurants in the world is a literal "shithole"?

Have any of you ever been to a real shithole? a place which has been so badly bombed for example, that it has no functional public services or a town so hollowed out by recession that it has no meaningful centre and most people are on welfare. Thought not.

If London is a "shithole", what is it about your particularly delightful town which makes it superior to this? I'd like to hear what it is about your town which gives you the enormous confidence to anonymously bash one of the world's great cities and assert that your town renders it to the status of shithole.

Anyone got the balls to actually stick their head over the parapet and justify being non-specifically nasty? Or do you prefer being anonymously small-minded and unpleasant?

"the cradle of several millennia of world history"

London is less than 2000 years old and was abandoned for 400 of those years. It hasn't even been a capital for a millenium and really only came to prominence as a "world city" 300 years ago.

it generally is a synonym for 'we don't like people who look poor or where there are too many non-white people'. Also when new graduates come to London, they tend to look for cheap accommodation and surprise- in the capital city, cheap accommodation would genuinely attract a diverse group of people and neighbours (some nice, some not so nice). Also in a wealthy city like London, there are so many people above you in terms of financial means.

I prefer to be a small fish in a big pond, but genuinely a lot of people's egos can't take the battering. I once sat next to a teacher from Birmingham who referred to himself as 'upper-class' as he earned £62k. I genuinely started laughing. Somehow I was the only one laughing as everyone else at that table did think that was a very good income. I don't think I can live in such a place where people lack such self awareness! No one in London would get away with saying stuff like that even if they were on £200k!

Fair. It's still by any definition a major world city though.

@rosetintedmemories2023

I prefer to be a small fish in a big pond, but genuinely a lot of people's egos can't take the battering.

I agree, I think most of the London-hating is people who feel threatened by the fact that other people can deal with the chaos and complexity of London and they can't hack it. People who like their lives in tidy little boxes with utter predictability as to what is going to happen from one day to the next. People who are uncomfortable with too many black or brown faces because they feel it reflects poorly on them. People who vastly overstate the risk of stabbings and shootings. People who are too small minded or lazy to want to enjoy anything cultural so they like to sneer at people who do.

There are plenty of valid reasons not to want to live in London. I can totally relate to this and I don't blame people for getting to a point where they've had enough of it.

But when people post that it's a "shithole" or they hate it or whatever I immediately know they are insecure, small-minded and a bit scared of life.

Genuinely staggered that this last paragraph is being offered as proof of how bad people outside London are. Self awareness where art thou