AIBU to say private school children are much sportier & better musicians?

[Denimrevival]

Just on the back of comparing with friends & family with dc in private schools. The kids & their families are all naturally sporty & outdoorsy anyways but the school provides a vast range of sports with it's own pool & swim team.
Musically their kids all play 2 or three instruments all at least grade 4 or 5..
How do these private schools do the academics, music & sports to such a high standard? Do they also have a very good base if the kids are having sport & music reinforced outside school through their families lifestyles?

The best, by a country mile, violin teacher my DD had was the council peri at her state primary. Unfortunately we lived in a rural area of very, very high deprivation at the time but he went above and beyond to get her 1-1 tuition at school during the day. She had to audition at the local music service for the privilege and when she got the go ahead the barriers and snarkiness towards her from some other parents and sadly, a couple of staff members, was astonishing. Fed up with battling it, on her teachers advice she auditioned for Chetham's and got in so, off she went. She's now at the Royal College of Music and going up into her final year.
Shortly after she left to go to Chets the local music service was abruptly disbanded and there is now NO music tuition of the kind she received down there. Wealthier parents can of course still access lessons privately but there will be a generation of children with talent that was never nurtured in those schools.
So it's opportunity OP, and sometimes low aspirations amongst not only parents, but those on the council who hold the purse strings. On hearing she was applying to Chets her then Headteacher turned to me and said, "well, she can have a go of course but it's not really 'our' thing, is it?" (For context, she first picked up hrr violin aged 6 and was Grade 8 two years later.)

I always wonder when I read things like this - how do people think private school kds cope.when they get jobs or go to uni? They seem to do OK in life with plenty of friends etc. Maybe it's not such an issue that they don't know someone who lives in social housing when they are at school?

I've had my kids at several state and private schools and think the demographic who send them there in the first place plays a large part of it. The schools themselves charge extra for peripatetic music lessons and these tend to be for at least 30 mins - the longer school days make it easier to slot a music lesson in, even 2 per week in private schools. State schools do this too but often shorter and it becomes hard work for the child who always misses the same parts of school lessons etc. My daughter used to do Singing and Clarinet and her private school have an entire coordinator who ensures they done always miss the same lessons etc. She stopped it all at GCSE tho! They had music lessons just like state schools tho and concerts however the range of music clubs and choirs was greater at private school.

I think music lessons are expensive wherever you have them though so if you are on a lower income it's not easy to do, which is such a shame in my opinion.

Of families who can afford to send their children to private school, those who are willing are the types who place value in music education too. Not everyone places education so highly, even if they can afford it.

From someone who will almost certainly never be able to send kids to private school, and am very concerned re state of local secondary...

I went to private school. It may have changed since my day, but we had a huge focus on not just music and sports, but extra curricular activities generally. So we all played at least a couple of instruments as it was part of our curriculum, and many of us had further lessons too. Our sports department had properly focused teachers who played sports themselves. So our rugby team was coached by rugby players and so on. We played a wide range of sports so it was easy to find something you enjoyed and were good at. Our facilities were top level, and the school brought in external coaches for things like private tennis lessons.

Beyond that, we were encouraged to find something we loved and thrived in within art and design and societies such as debating and volunteering. It's much easier to excel when you have a broad range of things to try and you're supported in your choices. Feeling enriched and fulfilled counts for a great deal too.

Also, we all had to pass exams and an interview to get in, so everybody was of a high level intellectually.

And the days were longer. Our school day was 8am-4pm. Some days we'd have optional sports practice before or after school. We also had to take part in extra curricular activities for half of lunchtime, and had extra lessons during lunch a couple of days a week in exam season. There wasn't much just milling about.

You're like me @TragicMuse I hate all sports as I never got the chance at school & my parents had no interest in sports & never exercised themselves, not a slight on them they work very hard.

My dc play sports outside school & do our local jr parkrun (lots of kids from the local privates also do this & are very fast & well prepared in terms of kit, good running shoes & all weather running gear !) My dc wouldn't be a patch on my friends dcs as regards sports but we don't have a very sporty or outdoorsy lifestyle either.

'cope', you would hope so wouldn't you with the privileges you have afforded them in life and friends yes, you can buy the right kind of friends as well. Personally, I want my children to have developed empathy and a breadth of understanding of different ways of living which you will not get if there is no adversity around you and everyone's life is cushioned by the magic money tree. The creative process needs inspiration where is that from if all around you is the same.

The question is over the assertion of the OP that stated Private schools make 'better musicians', it simply isn't true or even evidenced.

Music is slightly different I think, where a big boost comes from being in a musical family.

I'm thinking of perfect pitch — you can't develop that after about 5 or 6. So you need to either start lessons before that, or have somebody telling you the note names so you learn the mapping. If nobody told you the names of colours you'd never be able to name them, even though you could tell them apart. So without the involvement of somebody musical at a young age, you just won't have perfect pitch.

Because obviously no privately educated child ever encounters any adversity 🙄 Being a state school child doesn't mean you encounter adversity you know ie many wealthy parents choose not to send their kids to private yet still have protection of the magic money tree.
Lazy, boring stereotypes at play here!

Well I expect if private school kids grow up and feel they've missed out on a particular version of 'real life' they can go and work and volunteer in that area, as lots do. Personally I went to a rough state school back in the 80s and it wasn't a lovely illuminating experience, my best friends lived in council housing though, and I still grew up to send mine privately so go figure. Not sure everyone I went to school with grew up with boundless empathy either, some absolute wrong uns there. My private school educated kids are far more thoughtful and accepting than most of us were back in the day!

They put more emphasis on those activities.

In my comp, you had to express an interest in these sorts of activities which were viewed I think in the school as peripheral to the main object of getting everyone out and in a state where they could read and write. Plus playing instruments was also seen as a bit geeky, and in my case it was a pain in the ass because I ended up missing some other lesson that I was really interested in - there was no time outside the academic cirriculum for it.

Whereas in private schools I think it is actively encouraged, if not an actual requirement. That and of course the facilities are better.

Most of the people I knew at university who were at private school seemed to play sport/instruments to a relatively high level compared to people from comps.

The worst trope on here are the parents that insist they can afford private (you haven't said this Goldenbear) yet like to send their kids to the local state to learn empathy, as if it was some sort of poverty zoo.

@Terryer yes or because they want their DC to develop resilience because obviously the only way you can do this is by attending a state school. Even though odds are that if they can afford to send their kids private but choose not to, that they won't be living in a council flat in inner city London! So chances are that their DC will be mixing in very similar socio-economic groups to those at private school!

You should be careful re what you assume about someone you don’t know.

My point is that ‘real world’ has become synonymous with a life of poverty and hardship. Everyone lives in a world that is real for them.

My kids are at an independent school. I'd describe them as unsporty but willing in one case; actively avoiding all forms of movement in the case of the older.
They also both play an instrument at Grade 1 level after 3/5 years [incl remote lessons during the pandemic] and ungraded [refuses to sit exams but does play in the junior orchestra. They have a 30 min lesson on site [charged additionally] weekly.
There are kids in the prep that are actively going for scholarships and are Grade 4 by Yr5. They have lessons both in and outside of school and I suspect are actively made to practice. My view is that you either have a passion for music or you don't. The horizon view of whether this is worth it financially is fast approaching for my kids.

I went to a state school and had none of the opportunities they have. Opportunity does not necessarily create talent, drive to succeed and enthusiasm for something. That comes from within and children will be just as talented within the state sector so YABU.

What is the key difference I think is the accessibility. Particularly as a working parent - I can't schlep them to afternoon activities all week. The fact that so many sports, music orchestras and school teams operate around school hours on site makes it very easy for me to say yes.

Goldenbear
the school can't discriminate against people who don't have enough money.

😂ahem, back in the real world...

Your comment alone shows how ignorant you are of this 'real world' as you have no clue about how it works
what an interesting comment, as I said upthread, MY kids are in state school... 😂😂

I'm willing to stick my neck out and say the majority of modern classical UK composers went to private school. Probably not the rock and pop acts.

If your children aren't at a private school, it's unlikely you know that many private school kids. Really not all of them are sporty or musical. What is obvious is the amount of opportunities money gives you. This is the case in state schools too. The sporty and musical state school kids will be coming from homes where someone can pay for instruments, music tuition, club fees. They will have parents that are home to supervise instrument practice and can drive them to sports and fixtures.

Parents who send their kids to private school often have very conservative/conventional views of what their kids should be doing in terms of extra curricular stuff. Playing an orchestral instrument to a certain grade level is part and parcel with that. Meantime, the kids that actually come up with innovative musical ideas/styles that become globally popular (eg jungle, drill, grime dubstep, punk) are more likely to have grown up on an estate, have completed no musical grades and gone to a comp.

For those asking about my school's music programme - it's only in certain schools, not all. Sorry that this wasn't clear. We belong to a charity network that funds this provision (UK based). Provision in other schools varies a lot. I remember the days of free instrument lessons when I was at school via the music service, but often these are paid now... some music hubs will do bursaries though I think.

Adversity that is cushioned by the good fortune of being wealthy is not going to be as challenging. Let's face it having lots of money does not really keep you in touch with the societal and cultural turbulence experienced by the rest of us. You can be wealthy and send your child to state school but you child will not be living in a bubble where they only have friends who are wealthy, where the school experience is only ever calm and a good one. If your classes are being disrupted, if your teachers are being sworn at and threatened then you are immersed in real life, it reflects what is on the outside of the school. If you go to a state school you will inevitably experience those disruptions and friends with difficult lives on a daily basis. Most people who are paying for a private education do so precisely to avoid this experience. When it comes to creativity, where's the source, if all the difficult experiences are airbrushed out.

If you want sports/music opportunities for your children, in most cases you have to create them. They join the local squash/tennis/hockey/swimming club. Same with music. My eldest has grade 6 and grade 7 in two different instruments. 2nd has grade 4 and grade 8 in two instruments. Youngest had the same opportunities but no interest! Got a couple of grade 2s 😊

If your classes are being disrupted, if your teachers are being sworn at and threatened then you are immersed in real life

I hate to break it to you.. but you do realise that not all children in state school have ever experienced this?

You have NO IDEA of state school in the real world, have you 😂

You pay for it. The school doesn’t provide it, you pay separately for music lessons (so you could do these out of school). And those that excel at sport do that sport outside of school. Eg they’ll only do netball for a term but it’s the outside club that skills them up.