AIBU to say private school children are much sportier & better musicians?

[Denimrevival]

Just on the back of comparing with friends & family with dc in private schools. The kids & their families are all naturally sporty & outdoorsy anyways but the school provides a vast range of sports with it's own pool & swim team.
Musically their kids all play 2 or three instruments all at least grade 4 or 5..
How do these private schools do the academics, music & sports to such a high standard? Do they also have a very good base if the kids are having sport & music reinforced outside school through their families lifestyles?

Actively disagree.

Private schools push competitive sport to early for a lot of children and put them off.

Children state schools have more free time for music and sport so can practice more (albeit not in school).

Apart from Oxbridge which is kicking and screaming to admit bare numbers of state school riff raff and only those with freakily bright natural intellect and no other life outside of school. They are the only ones who can match the hot housing of elite private schools.

Whole generations of bright, but poorer kids, whose talents are overlooked for bank balance greasy pole privilege.

So YABU op. No kid is born with superior music and sporting skills just because their mummy and daddy are rich.

It’s obvious really for all the reasons already mentioned.

I used to work in a private school. The teachers are the same as state schools and the dc are the same as any other dc. I used to work in the pre-prep mostly and have also worked in a few state early years settings. The children at that age were the same level in both. However, as they moved up the school the gap widened because the private dc had all the opportunities and the parents had money to pay for extra tuition and activities. We had professional sports coach’s come into the school for sports lessons each day and music lessons were a must. Some parents and dc in private had foul better than you attitudes but not many, the school I worked in would not encourage this and would actively stamp it out. The atmosphere in the private school was very different to state, this was due to class sizes and behaviour. They are better behaved in private because parents are paying so any disruption is not tolerated and they have the resources to swiftly manage disruptive dc. I did see many pros and cons to private but I see this in state schools too.

We are a completely normal family with normal jobs and me and dh were both state educated. I am an active advocate for equality and the rights of the disadvantaged. It’s my whole job basically and I chose it as I’m passionate about that.
My eldest dc was offered a place at a local independent due to academic ability. We explored it as she was having a hard time at her state school. She would probably have been given a scholarship at another private near us. We gave her all the facts and she decided herself to stay in state and go to the local state secondary with her friends as that was important to her. That is fine with me. Her abilities are natural, however, we are fortunate in that we were able to afford to nurture her talents by paying for private lessons 3x per week in music and art. We have the resources to spend time with her studying and are lucky that I have a family member who is a mathematician. One of my parents was educated well (state but a selective one) and her parents were professors who encouraged music and education. When you are surrounded by this it becomes your norm. My younger dc is probably going to go for a sports scholarship soon. She is in the top 10% in her sport. Again it’s a natural talent, I didn’t even know she had I must admit, she was quickly spotted at her extra circular and has since been given opportunities due to that. Again that is because she has a privilege that we can invest in her talents and pay for extra help.
Many dc will be just as talented as mine in all sorts of areas but unfortunately they won’t be given the same push because it’s out of reach for lots of people. It’s totally unfair. I’m not blind to that. We did have to make a decision about what we went without in order to free up funds for the dc’s extras and I have stayed in a job I’m not 100% happy with because of the pay. It’s not been totally plain sailing but I’m aware that it’s still a privilege.

I so wish state education could be even half as good as private but it will never be. All children should be given the opportunity to meet their potential but that will never happen.

I could choose not to send dc2 on the scholarship or pay for either dc extra circulars or lessons but who would honestly do that in the real world? I care about all dc but I naturally want the best for my own. I find it hard to get my head around people who say they wouldn’t pay for private school or extra advantages for their dc even if they had the money. I doubt they would say the same if they actually did.

It's simply economics, they can afford multiple instrument lessons. Both my DD's play multiple instruments and were state educated (dd1 plays 5 to orchestral standard plus piano and voice at grade 8, it costs a lot of money - I used her dla to pay for them)

In my experience, private schools are heavily into resources, routine and enrichment. School
days run like clockwork to fit everything in. They do have slightly longer days in primary and quite a bit longer in high school, with Saturday school common, but not in all schools. Although weekend sports fixtures as they get a bit older. They tend to build physical activity into every day, and have lots of specialist staff too. I’d be a bit worried at what you were paying for if these things didn’t all happen.

DD (young end of primary school) has PE on Mondays plus outdoor learning, games on Tuesdays, Wednesday is swimming, Thursday is a sport that has an outdoor company in to run it. Friday outdoor learning. Music twice a week and French twice a week. After school clubs are a mix of sporty and fun. Starts recorder next year with the whole class and then private additional tuition becomes available the following year, although we’re currently looking for a drum teacher. Latin further up the school. Library trips every week, normally a school trip per term and residential start very early too. Heavily into the arts and school shows and productions.

Academically, they are pushed. But equally there is a lot of resource for kids who need extra support in particular areas. I would imagine they are working 6-12 months ahead of curriculum in most areas.

For what it’s worth, I grew up in a WC skint family. DH less so, but not rolling in it. We’ve made some very savvy decisions and it’s paid off for us. It was never a guarantee that things would turn out this way. I never expected life to be like this. We are definitely on the more “down to earth” side of families though. There is a lot of entitlement, but we actively don’t do that. We’re not twats.

Also, I would have been happy for DD to go to the local state school if things hadn’t turned out this way for us. I would still be doing reading and maths with her most days, and she’d possibly do a bit more out of school to supplement less resources in state sector. But many many people already do that, and often to excess. We wouldn’t have stretched ourselves to an uncomfortable financial position to fund private school. I’m extremely grateful that we can, but it wasn’t a make or break for me, or DH.

Back when I was a kid and growing up in 90s London we had a lot of access to free music lessons in state schools and were strongly encouraged to join orchestras etc. That was when the arts were seen as important.

I had a few friends at private school at the same time and their end of year concerts were no better than ours 😅.

Likewise, if you look at the rich history of British popular music, the majority of important artists have come from very ordinary working class families with the odd exception (Joe Strummer I think).

I once mentioned this on a thread only for delightful poster to explain (as if to a poor state thicko) that of course she wasn't interested in popular music 😄.

Anyway if someone chucks enough money at you to learn a skill and puts pressure on you, I'm sure it's fairly straightforward to become at least proficient in that skill.

It’s not rocket science.
It’s money, and expectations - from the parent and the school.

My friend switched her daughter (mine’s bestie) to private for Y5.

I’ll take ONE example - netball.

Mine continued to play it in occasional games at school, with a teacher who didn’t know the rules. They had one goal post. After a few weeks they switched to football, because the focus was on widening participation and all kids having a little go at all sports, specialising in none. There was one tournament organised by the council all year, and the teacher played everyone to have a go.

At the private… there was a team, and competition to be on it. If you weren’t good enough, you didn’t play. Netball was played in PE, and also an after school club that ran all year. All PE teachers were Level 2 netball coaches - shared with the senior school, no class teachers led PE. They had workshops delivered by the local netball superleague team players. Remember the one goal post? They had 4 courts fully set up and hosted tournaments. Opportunities for matches? Regular games in private school only league.

That’s before you go anywhere near parents with money (for schools) also having money for clubs.

It’s money and expectations and the opportunities that come from both of those things.

Haven't read the entire thread, but state music teacher here. We have additional funding so ALL our students have the chance for free instrument tuition - even 1:1 tutoring for free, if they will commit to attending ensembles. The teachers are professional musicians and are really good. Unfortunately many of the students simply don't appreciate the value of this (because free, or no family culture of valuing music) and practice is not always enforced at home. Or there is no practice space at home and the student refuses to stay after school. Students also drop out of rehearsals and concerts last minute, even lovely kids, and parents let them. Often they are dealing with so much outside school - amd within school. The students/families that do seize all the opportunities achieve up to grade 8... however when something is not being paid for, it appears to be taken less seriously. On the plus side, those who do engage are doing it from genuine love and not because a parent made them.

Check out the proper home ed community. Grade 8s at 11 not uncommon, as are published books, composed symphonies and incredible sports achievements. Nothing to do with private schooling, much more to do with parental support.

This sounds great. Are you in the UK? Sadly in the county in which I live the music service (run by the local authority) has struggled with years of underfunding.

It's time and parental support. My kids have sports sessions every day, often S&C before school at 7.15, also lunchtime and after school training. Plus three scheduled games sessions and school matches. Specialist coaches and facilities (hockey astros, grass wickets through the winter shared with one of the men's county cricket teams).

They do club sport on top but they're probably getting an extra 10 hours a week from school provision. One son played two county sports, the other three plus two at regional level.

They have decent hand-eye coordination and athleticism but they're nothing special, they've just had the benefit of school coaching and facilities. And we've been able/willing to spend both days of the weekend ferrying them around.

This!!!!

Haven’t read every post. Yes it’s about facilities, specialist teachers and money.

But also, private school kids (ages 4-13) are registering in school at 8.30 am and finish at 5 pm. This includes PE and sports. They also have classes till lunchtime, followed by matches with other schools on Saturday. Senior schools (ages 13-18) have longer days.

The kids privately educated work much harder and longer than state school kids.

Oh bore off!

@Tigertealeaves Can you please explain the funding for all children. So if my child attends our council-run orchestra (which I am considering for him anyway), will I be able to get free 1:1 tuition for him or am I reading this wrong? Thank you so much!

My daughter has been in private school since reception and is very sporty, but the sport she competes in she does entirely outside of school. He school offers the sport, but at a beginner level. So her sports achievements are not at all down to the school. Unless a private school specialises in a particular sport, the kids who compete at high level train in clubs outside of school.

Her*

Sorry not to quote, but the thing about blind shortlisting for jobs assumes that the only benefit you get from performing/playing to a high standard is being able to write about it on your CV. I really disagree with this. There is a huge amount of value to be gained from these activities that will impact on your skills for life, including confidence, resilience, ability to work in a team, strategic thinking, desire to excel etc - never-mind softer skills like self expression, empathy and creativity. Nobody need ever know you played county rugby and grade 8 piano for you to have gained those skills.

(Since we seem to need to say - state school parent who recognises the value of the few amazing opportunities my kids have had, but still envious of those who get a lot more!)

My primary aged son is privately educated (on a scholarship thingy so we don’t pay a bean) but is neither sporty or musically inclined in any way!

That said, yes he has access to things if he wants to partake in any extra curricular activities. The music tuition instrument list is huge and for sports they have their own swimming pool and gym, a seated cricket ground and football / rugby fields as well as access to the local premier league winning sides training facilities a few times a year (for the upper secondary school aged kids anyway). They also have a very good theatre and clubs and societies, even in the primary phase, are plentiful.

It comes down to resources including private investment with a lot of benefactors etc.

I agree that it’s not fair that state schools don’t receive the same amount of funding and the opportunities aren’t the same but I think the older you get and in terms of job applications etc the less it matters where you went to school, especially as lots of jobs are based on competencies nowadays and if you’re good enough you’re good enough, no matter your background.

I don't think talented musicians that went to state school are in the minority, unless you are only referring to classically trained musicians. My son is 16 and plays the guitar and electric guitar to at least grade 6 standard, his friend plays the drums, his other friend plays the guitar. My DD is only 12 but plays piano to grade 4 and writes her own lyrics and compositions. There are many children at DC's state school that play in bands and one of those bands does gigs around the city. My friend's son like his Dad (who was in a band in the 90s) is an incredibly talented guitar player who also is in a band that plays loads of venues. If you think about it how many talented musicians in the public eye went to state school as opposed to private school?

Long days and Saturday school and a school culture where doing something other than academics is normal. Long lunchbreaks with changing facilities and showers so easy to play sport, shower change and eat lunch every day. Good food. Kids coming in from prep schools where they prioritise these things and don't have to follow the curriculum or bother with SATS so have more time to do it. Specialist teachers. Openly proud of the kids who do well in music or sport.

It's about wealth rather than private education imo. Yes, private schools will do a lot of sports/extracurricular, but state educated kids can access comparable opportunities if their parents can pay to facilitate this.

A lot of the performing arts stuff that my dd was involved in was full of private school kids. Yes, they did stuff in school, but the ones who were really serious about it did it out of school as well. Not cheap though!

Not true. We have the money, we got the places, but just couldn’t do it. I don’t think my kids deserve a ‘better’ education than any others. Mine are in state, it’s underfunded and nowhere near the advantages and opportunity of private, but it’s real and it’s fair and it’s the right thing to do. We push the school gently for more and better for our kids and, by virtue of that, all kids. We challenge and support. That’s the only way state provision will improve, not by selling out.

but then it literally means they ARE more sporty, and better musician.

It doesn't mean they were born with better abilities, simply they have more practice and opportunities.

If all state school children had 1 or 2 hours of PE every day, state school children would be more sporty. Currently the ones who have parents with time and money go to various clubs after schools, the others go home and watch tv.

People who do more sport are more sporty, it's beyond obvious.