To call this an assault?

[trustyrustie]

I was shopping in one of those supermarkets, that isn’t actually a supermarket but sells all the stuff that you know that you don’t know you need until you walk in today. When I finished, I approached the till area. There were a few tills with one woman on one till. the other tills were empty. I joined the queue for the till and there were three or four people ahead of me.

I had a trolley with two items in it, and I was holding the trolley with both hands. At some point the cashier left her position at the till to walk towards the customer services desk and look at two ladies working there. I didn’t realise she had done this until she yelled over aggressively to them “I’m sending some customers down to you because I’ve got plenty of them here” or words to that effect.

Without me expecting it she then aggressively physically pushed my trolley while I still had hold of it with both hands so that it spun 45° to the right in the direction of the customer services desk. My arms were pulled and my body was spun around as it went. She then turned around and went back to her till.

I think this was an assault.

I was shocked and upset… A few people that I know agree with me, and a few don’t

AIBU?

Those who are scoffing wouldn’t like it themselves. Maybe they are cashiers too…

Yes, that's right. There's a large network of evil cashiers with a strong presence on Mumsnet who enjoy shoving trolleys and making angle puns.

Hi welcome to Mumsnet are you new here?

😂😂😂

For the love of god! The woman moved the trolley.

She didn’t spin the op around, she didn’t jerk her. How do even jerk someone by moving their trolley.

Not comparable in the slightest.

It was rude but certainly not an assault. Get a grip.

Absolutely not. However, those assuming that the OP would get ass pats and validation for her ridiculously over dramatic “assault” in the “supermarket that isn’t a supermarket” possibly are.

@TalkingSchist 'ass pats'? Now that does sound like assault.

Depends. I might like it.

OP has stated she was holding on to her trolley, by moving something sharply that a person is holding onto it is reasonably foreseeable that the person would be jerked.

I am currently managing a civil claim (following a successful criminal charge) for damages against someone who did something very similar.

To those who wouldn't be bothered/affected, great that's smashing. However there are others to whom it can cause injury/ pain who wouldn't feel that way.

And for those scoffing it isn't assault, it literally falls under the legal definition of assault.

@Worrieddmum

But op said she wasn't injured.

Managing is a very vague term.

Op wasn’t injured. Moving or push a trolley violently would make it move much more than 90 degrees. Have you ever pushed a trolley.

Op her body span round. It didn’t spin round. She did a quarter turn.

It literally doesn’t fall under the definition. it’s gone from ‘it span me’ to describing it as jerking. To posters, like you, describing it as ‘jerking her around’ as though it went on for a prolonged period are being ridiculous.

If you keep having to reword it to make it sound more and more dramatic, you don’t really have a point.

I am the solicitor leading on the civil matter.

The substitution of similar words is used to help with interpretation; a technique used by solicitors, barristers and KCs up and down the country.

We will have to agree to disagree.

@Worrieddmum just to be clear, you are a solicitor and, in your professional opinion, you believe that someone can be prosecuted for assault even though the 'victim' was uninjured and there was no intention to cause them injury.

You’re the solicitor leasing on a case where a staff member moved someone’s trolley, leaving them uninjured. There was a criminal case and now you are doing the civil case?

I suspect there’s huge differences between what you are claiming to deal with and this situation.

and again, your language and Op language keeps escalating the situation to make it appear more dramatic. You wouldn’t need to do that, if you genuinely felt there was a case.

Whatever happened to just telling someone "ow! that seemed a bit unnecessary!", and either getting an apology or making a complaint?

Are you? Facts? With all that hyperbole?

What did you do after this event happened?

I don't know about assault but I think you should make a complaint. My mum has Parkinsons Disease and when she goes to the shops she uses trollies to lean on and help keep her upright as she is very unsteady on her feet, some nutter doing that to her (or someone with similar disabilities) would very likely have caused her to fall and badly hurt herself.

See,I've pictured it being Home Bargains.😀Hope OP enlightens us!

Whilst this wouldn't be a problem for most people, If this had been my DM, who has recently had a hip operation, this may have caused her to fall and damage her hip or put her recovery back just from the act of keeping her balance. This must also go for anyone more frail.
Totally unacceptable but not assault.

I think intent is a significant factor.

If I pushed a door open, accidentally causing it to hit someone I didn't realise was on the other side, would that be considered assault and an act of violence?

IMO if harm or injury caused is an unintentional consequence of an action, it's not assault.

That would really hurt me! Wrenching my lower back like that would take ages to recover. I can't use the deep trolleys, only the shallow ones, because of the strain on the lower back from turning them.

Clearly most people think it wouldn't injure them, but you can't assume that and it certainly would me.

Yes I am a solicitor practising for 14+ years.

The OP hasn't said she was uninjured, later posters said that. She references that her body was spun 90 degrees, the shock this caused her and she also made reference to her arms having been jerked (2130 last night since another poster claimed I'd made that language up)

You don't need to intend to hurt someone for there to be a crime. A blatant disregard for another's safety is sufficient for culpability, on a more extreme example of this it's why there's a difference between murder and culpable homicide for example because the mens rea is different.

Whether a common assault charge or breach of the peace would be appropriate would depend on further details but yes on the bones of what has been said there is grounds for a charge to be raised with police.

Again you seen perpetually intended to misconstrue what I'm saying.

In my matter, there was already a successful criminal case that is concluded (not by me). I am handling the further civil matter related to the criminal matter. Injuries aren't always immediately apparent either. The matter I'm dealing with wasn't a shopping trolley but a similar wheeled item you would get in supermarkets or warehouses. Similar type of situation in the other regard.

Again, I've not made the language more dramatic, the OP stated last night her arms were jerked. There are simply other ways of describing things.

You want to believe that it's not something that would be deemed to be an assault. That's literally (by the definitions in the statute) incorrect, but you are free to have that opinion if you so choose.

I admit I laughed 😂😂😂