All women I know are in my situation

[growli]

Pretty useless DH. They're left to look after the kids. Called nags if they complain.

It mostly falls on them. The marriages are pretty rubbish.

I've posted here so many times about my issues with my H and my lifestyle with small kids.

I always get told I need to divorce. I get told that there are other men out there who aren't as useless with their children.

In real life, every woman I know, faces something similar. Mainly responsible for everything to do with kids and house, works full time most of the time too.

Husband works hard, but doesn't contribute to looking after the kids or household. Complains of not enough sex.

The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children.

What happened to the men our parents raised ? For them to expect women to still be like their mothers ? Doing everything for kids and family.

Mothers and mothers in law in general ( even though they raised us to be successful career women with choices ) don't have a whole lot of sympathy as it seems a raise to the bottom and ' how much harder ' it was for them.

I realise I'm generalising

The mental and emotional load however, yes, it is huge

For me personally, as a single mum to 2 young adult men, the most exhausting and relentless mental load I carry is getting them to step up and not be selfish lazy fuckers like their father was. I am in fact awake, here at 4am in Australia, stressing out about the latest run in with one of them about their selfishness. And yet, after my tireless efforts, if they decide to go out into the world and not pull their weight, at least half the people in this thread will think it's my fault. As if these men have no agency - they're 100% products of the mothering they received. What utter bullshit.

Exactly. It's misogyny, continued.
It sounds like you're doing everything you can and more. So, so hard!

they're 100% products of the mothering they received. What utter bullshit
exactly,
it's the fathering, whatever they see the father get away with they will want to emulate, the worse the father the more the son will see women as subordinate and he will ignore them, looking up instead to the man who does exactly as he pleases and no-one can stop him

I did that with my ex yes, and I know others who do. A weekly breakfast in a cafe to organise the week.

I think men are more likely to do what they see other men around them doing, especially men they respect. I’m lucky my dh definitely does his fair share (slightly less than me on the organising, more than me on food shopping and cooking). I don’t think he does it because I ask him to, I think it’s because it’s how all his friends behave too, all very involved dads. I chose to have children with him not just cause I love him but also as I could see his BIL, db, best mate all good dads/husbands.

No, as I said am on a phone and shouldn’t have got involved in a complex but bloody interesting thread. I suppose it stems from a fascination. I also said in a later comment that children are influenced radiating outwards. This society is so blatantly sexist. Do you correct your boys? I have 1 boy and 2 girls and one who identified as queer - I gave them all chores. A year on my son asked me why I’d given him the weekly bins out chore. OMG how bloody sexist was that! I too have been raised with stereotypes and am trying constantly to change them. You are right to have flagged this but I hadn’t understood your initial point - equally when typing on a phone I should know better than to put a simplistic ‘quick’ view point online. I apologise.

Hopefully this is a generational thing, the young Dads I know are really good with sharing childcare and take their parenting duties very seriously. The older Dads, not so much. DC follow the example their DP's set them, that's their normal.

None of this comes naturally to me either.

Weirdly, we have something called Google or you can actually converse with someone to check the best way of doing something. After that you should have a reasonable idea.

I'm not forgetting anything. You're the one that's decided to make a point (not particularly solid one at that) about a section of society that has little to do with the OP or the reason why women put up with man babies.

I'm not blaming women. Just questioning why powerful, successful working women (who probably manage teams of men and women) choose to live with man babies and get walked over.

What differentiates those from others who wouldn't put up with it?

I thought this was true until I met my husband. I think 99% men are like this, but some are not.

Only acceptable if the time women are entitled to isn't cut short.

Can't see any benefit in forcing (some) women back to work at 6 months because Dad needs a turn.

What women don't need is less maternity leave!

Hopefully that's not what you meant.

At the risk of causing further fury whilst women are not ‘responsible’, the main care givers (be that 1 or a village) still have the greatest impact on a child’s burgeoning perspective. Yes the culture/societal clauses sets the scene for what those caregivers feel acceptable/taboo with it’s ‘rules’ and hidden agendas but a fight is still present/needed. The worst bit is that that fight is now far more insidious/hidden. I’ve met and worked with those who identify as male who would say that women have achieved equality - which of course we haven’t. Sorry my previous comment was too quick!

My mum says my grandad was exactly like this and they were definitively working class. Mum managed to marry someone who wasn’t like this, having watched her mother go through it, but I never learned how to avoid it and didn’t know I had to.

I suspect that part of the problem is the concentration the media has on finding the one and getting to the point of love or marriage and then the story stops and the “happily ever after” is assumed. I saw marriage as an end in itself and not really as the beginning of a long, hard life, in which I should definitely have been looking for someone who would treat me well and not someone I lusted after and could have fun with.

That's rubbish. But it's not all men. My husband is amazing. He does the lion's share of the domestic stuff... I'm the lazy one who he has to 'nag' if anything!

I’ve always wondered about this, but not from the perspective of overall equality in the future but would it negate the supposed fear that employing a childless woman means the employer takes a bigger risk than employing a male because of potential maternity leave/ career break to raise children. However as another has pointed out I doubt we’ll get to a point where employers enable both parents to take the time out to raise the child for a year together!

It says right in her comment that it should be equal for women and men.

Funny that so much emphasis is being put on how we raise boys. Personally, I think we need to be reassessing how we raise girls.

While our DDs continue seeing mum doing everything at home, taking a step back in her career or stopping working altogether, and letting their dads veto what is best for the family, that’s the example they will follow.

There have been a string of very independent men in my life, who turned into manchildren as the relationship progressed. At some point I started wondering if I was attracting manchildren or making them so… I decided to step back and do nothing with one of my exes, that meant I never washed his clothes, packed his luggage, reminded him of bills to pay or organises his diary. I cooked for him sometimes but, more often than not he shown up with a bag of groceries on hand to cook dinner for years.

All the ones before and after have been the the same but as I get more bossy, they then start relying on me making decisions until they become practically teenagers who need to be reminded to feed the cat, take their lunch or about their dentist appointment and are by then unable to match a pair of socks.

I own up, it is my fault as well.

At the risk of causing a massive uproar this is seriously not just working class as our ‘illustrious’ ex prime-minster and his lack of consideration to women and his past children has so beautifully demonstrated!

Well, it does sound like men are better at getting women to do what they want than women are at getting men to do what they want. Either that, or nobody is happy. I wouldn’t be surprised about the latter, tbh - I find modern society is throwing out far too many confusing, mixed messages. If I were a young girl or boy today, I wouldn’t have the foggiest notion what on earth was really expected of me.

DH lived alone before we dated so he was used to doing all of his own chores, ironing, cleaning.... I think that was 100% vital for our relationship.
He didn't move straight from his parents (very traditional SAHM) to us living together.
He had responsibilities in his own home and in his job.

After the children came along I did found the mental load fell to me doctor, school, opticians ....so I made it very clear I couldn't do it all. So we shared that

I only have boys and I was adamant that in a house full of men our roles would be shared. The boys were responsible for cleaning their playroom when small and went on to their rooms, vacuuming the house, dishwasher....

They have had a great role model with DH and I'm very lucky to have him in my life

If it had to be a choice between the two then I’d take both parents having 6 months parental leave over one parent having 12 months parental leave.

I just don’t relate to this at all, not on the slightest. We’re 50/50 I’d say and I don’t know anyone who lives in this seemingly hellish existence OP references. We have a great split of roles/load/whatever.

This is what gets to me the most - carrying the mental load.

I am specifically talking about comments on such threads where mums literally say that their boys cannot manage to sort themselves out without assistance and need to be in the ladies. Not the ones about not being safe in the men’s.

The former are on every thread on the topic, whether or not you think it’s ridiculous.

Not my experience, and the idea that all men are like this just lets the bad ones off the hook.

My DH does 50% of everything, including the mental load. And it's not because I "trained" him, or put my foot down, it's because he's not a dick.