All women I know are in my situation

[growli]

Pretty useless DH. They're left to look after the kids. Called nags if they complain.

It mostly falls on them. The marriages are pretty rubbish.

I've posted here so many times about my issues with my H and my lifestyle with small kids.

I always get told I need to divorce. I get told that there are other men out there who aren't as useless with their children.

In real life, every woman I know, faces something similar. Mainly responsible for everything to do with kids and house, works full time most of the time too.

Husband works hard, but doesn't contribute to looking after the kids or household. Complains of not enough sex.

The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children.

What happened to the men our parents raised ? For them to expect women to still be like their mothers ? Doing everything for kids and family.

Mothers and mothers in law in general ( even though they raised us to be successful career women with choices ) don't have a whole lot of sympathy as it seems a raise to the bottom and ' how much harder ' it was for them.

I realise I'm generalising

What would all the shit men do if they didn’t have wives doing it for them or telling them what to do?

They wouldn’t just shrivel up on the floor and stave to death in unwashed clothes in an unfurnished, freezing, dark house, not knowing how to buy food or keep appointments, would they?

They just chose not to behave like adults.

I also really regret the role my mother herself has played in all of it. Of course I don't blame her. But even though she raised me to ' not end up like her ', so encouraged study, career and always having my own money- when it came to asserting myself against my husband and in laws... she's always beaten me down and told me to ' keep the peace ' and ' how can you not cook for your husband '. She used to call me and ask and also make fun of me a little bit for always cooking the same stuff and being a rubbish home maker. Nothing compared to her of course. My husband also compared my home marking skills unfavourably to those of his mother and my mother. Whilst my mother and mother in law congratulate themselves, that nowadays, they don't ' make women like them ' anymore.

Since I've had children my mother has changed her tune immensely, I must say. She does support me and it's finally clicked for her. But it would have been nice to have some support earlier. Sam with standing up to my in laws. She always encourages me to be a doormat with them. I always need to take all their feelings into account and accommodate everyone else. But it's getting a little better.

I've felt shamed a lot though by my family in general for not being a brilliant home maker like my mum used to be. My husband also shames me for that. Funny how I don't care that my husband isn't good at DIY and we always pay people to do our DIY. My father can do it all. But I don't care that my husband can't do it. It doesn't bother me.

I somehow suspect you don’t really understand my post!!! Unless of course you feel that because women are over worked and repressed IS the reason they raise boys to expect women to do everything?!

Not just women raise boys (or girls).

I hear you @growli my mother wonders why I don't have a respectable marriage with a strong man, but she raised me to be nice keep the peace, be no trouble, reflect back her rosy view of herself, give more than I took..... and the relationship with my children's father was exactly like that. A re-run.

She wonders why I'm not braver, but not with her, I need to listen to her.

I agree and disagree.

Most couples I know with young children aren't happy. But not all.

And if I'm honest, at least half DO get good support from their husbands around the house in terms of housework and life admin.

Of those I know, there is a distinct difference in childcare though, most mum's I know do the vast lions share of childcare and the thinking for children and wider family.

In my case, my husband does at least his fair share of both, if not more.

Our relationship isn't perfect though for other reasons.

So - not all men shirk their responsibilities. But equally relationships, with children at least, are rarely happy all of the time. I think real relationships, especially long term ones, are bound to have good times and bad times and genuinely require work from both parties to sustain them.

Well, I doubt they 'raise them to' be like that. Children unconsciously copy what they see, especially in our gendered society they copy the parent of the same sex as themselves. If they see their mother is doing all she can, working hard to do everything, while their dad is a buffoon who does f all and is too thick to grasp that finances, education, hygiene, nutrition and child development take research and planning...they unconsciously copy this model. They do as they see, not as they're told.

The only way a mother could change this is to leave all the work and not do it, in which case the children of both sexes might grow up like the buffoon dad. Or she could find a stepdad who does loads of the domestic, mental and emotional work, as an alternative male role model.

V. Good point

Yet women still insist on breeding with these useless men, then raise those children to witness these useless men being useless, then send those children out into the world not knowing anything other than useless men.

But people are somehow surprised that there are still so many useless men around.

Quite frankly, if you know your "man" is useless and allow your children to see it as normal, then you are part of the problem.

Plenty do, actually.

I believe you, I see it, but only with working class men under 45ish.

I don't know what the hell happened, it wasn't like that when I was younger and me and my mates had kids. Older working class men I know aren't like that. Not are all ages of more middle class men. But the younger working class ones are all lazy sexist shits.

Speaking from my own observations only, as a working class woman. It depresses me.

So we are on the same page! I’m currently away and using a phone for an in-depth rant and have left out too many factors both family based and cultural - my apologies, but I do feel the most important influences on our children’s behaviour come from those closest to them radiating outwards - iyswim.

I don't think it's just working class people at all. It's everywhere.

Now ok...to be honest...I never vacuum more than once a fortnight and I get my ten year old son to do the easier bits...I have never plumped a cushion in my life...the beds get changed if they feel like they might need it (once a fortnight?)...

I would be the spouse not seeing it needs doing and thinking really, if you want to do that much (unnecessary in my view) housework you can. Though I'd be happy to compromise and do it once a week!

The mental and emotional load however, yes, it is huge.

This was exactly my point. I raised two boys and treated them exactly the same as their sister.

But they grew up witnessing a marriage where their father did a whole lot less than their mother.

They don’t only learn from how we treat them. They learn from what they see.

Your assumption that I am at fault now if my sons act the same as their father is sexism on stilts. You are holding me wholly responsible for how they turn out.

Do you still think I didn’t understand what you said?

Oh for god's sake. They're taking little boys into the women's changeroom to protect them from male predators. Not because 9yo boys can't dress themselves.

Stop blaming women for male incompetence! Well raised boys grow into lazy men when they look around them and realise that the whole of bloody civilisation is set up for their benefit.

Well it was easy for me, as my OH is a rational human being and wasn't a man baby before we met. I'd imagine a lot of men are as I know a fair few, as has been mentioned by PP's.

What would happen if these husband's came home to no food on the table, clean clothes etc etc? Do you think they'd notice then? Or if rubbish piled up high in the kitchen and rats started to visit? I think it hard to imagine anyone who wouldn't notice tbh.

Jesus wept you must know some choice men who clearly would've waved huge red flags prior to having a conversation about kids. Conversely, if they we're ones who did stuff before kids but suddenly stopped then it's doubtful they wouldn't understand the importance of keeping a house.

As for leaving, we're talking about modern families where the OP is a professional so is doing ok and potentially earns more than her DH.

Sorry but whilst I don't really understand, your post hasn't exactly provided a good argument why women are putting up with this and just sounds like an excuse.

It's not my life but I can imagine it's shit. The only way out is to say, once, from now on I'm responsible for x, y, Z and you for a, b, c.
Play to both your strengths.
And then drop the rope on the jobs that aren't yours.

Anyone complains, refer them to him. Whoever it is, parent, teacher, DCs, tax collector.

You need to be prepared for everything to go tits up though

It's maternity leave.

If leave is shared with the husband taking the last 3 or 6 months then women don't return to work with a husband who has been used to having a wife waiting on them and doing all the childcare for the last year. It leads to a more equal share when both are at work.

Personally I think we should have equal parental leave for men and women on a use it or lose it basis that can't be taken concurrently. So men experience a time being the main carer and household manager.

My DH was like this, awful in fact. It took me kicking him out and him truly believing I was done before he changed. He now's comes home from work, cleans, plays with the kids, does bath and cooks dinner. Worlds apart from the man I knew before

Children learn by example.
If they grow up in household where all their father does is go out to work, then go to whatever hobbies he chooses, sit on his lazy arse all other times then there is your answer.
If it is the mother who cooks, cleans, irons, does the laundry, makes the bed, cares for them when they are ill, buys their friends birthday presents and cards, buys their grandparents their Christmas and birthday presents, buys the teacher’s present, takes time off work for sports day/inset day/ sick days, tells them where xy and z is, prepares their packed lunch, sorts out snacks and drinks for all trips and car journeys, buys all presents and cards for Mother’s Day & fathers day………etc etc etc. Then why is it surprising that children will grow up with this expectation?
I’m surprised so many women still have kids under these circumstances.

Believe me, I blamed myself for a very long time and needed psychiatric help to realize that the decisions I took were the ones I thought were the best at the time.

The women who end up in these situations generally didn’t see it coming and don’t know how to escape, even though they can be fully competent in other aspects of life.

Why are women still raising boys to be like this!

Because you still think women are responsible for raising them.

I agree women do more. Even if it is just the planing side of things, like next size cloths, who is looking after them and when, etc.

None of this comes naturally to my partner. It is the same with cleaning and general house hold stuff.

So, he is told what he needs to do and when. Sounds bad but men will do this to you otherwise. I think it a case of start as you mean to go on.

Before kids it was the same. No tolerance really for BS. Problem is we weren't taught this.

You're forgetting that the welfare state has been torn to shreds, cost of living is in crisis and most women in these situations are shattered and struggling. How can they leave? And the emotional distress of a break up is immense.

Also that only a very tiny minority of women have any inkling of the amount of physical and emotional upheaval having babies involves or of any of the work, especially the emotional and mental load, that will hit them. They have no possibility of foreseeing this.

Why the lack of empathy and why blame women?