Male victimization / Female perpetration

[Freefall212]

The other thread is rightly not the right place for this conversation but the idea the 99% that men are perpetrators 99% of the time and women are victims 99% of the time is as much a rape myth as any other myth. It confirms a bias and ideology that woman believe is true but isn't supported by actual research. There are many issues in who reports what and how it gets into statistics but when you look at broader population studies, the numbers don't support these 'myths'. That doesn't mean there still isn't gendered violence but the actual statistics are not accurately portrayed in most fact sheet / website style information.

This was a bit of a landmark study from a few years ago in the USA
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2014.301946

Part 2 of it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178916301446

This research has led to hundreds of additional articles.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1097184X16652656?journalCode=jmma
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ab.21482
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1079063213503688?journalCode=saxb

Report on IPV - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/NISVSReportonIPV_2022.pdf

Even this research on desire shows how gendered social norms override reality
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02525-y

Exactly, the law excludes certain types nonconsensual sex from the definition of rape. When I got married, it was impossible in the eyes of the law for my husband to rape me and 0% of rape defendants were charged, tried or convicted of raping their wife.

For many years it was also impossible in the eyes of a law for a man to rape another man or boy. Therefore, the crime stats would have shown that 0% of rapists raped men or boys.

So, we do need to keep in mind the legal definition of rape and how it only includes certain types of nonconsensual sex. As rape currently excludes all women from being rapists (have to have that flesh and blood penis), you will automatically get 0% of convicted rapists being biological women.

In addition, the English law definition of rape isn’t the same as the definition of rape in other countries.

Rape is a specific thing where the risk of pregnancy compounds the assault

The victim doesn’t have to be able to get pregnant for it to be rape.

Yes Wiki is indeed not the most reliable source and there will always be research that directly contradicts all the other most respected and comprehensive sources. But the fact remains that the vast majority of statistical analysis/crime reports/convictions/research studies and victims organisations all evidence that men are overwhelming the perpetrators of sexual violence against women and other men.

This isn't directed at you personally but I find the whataboutery and misogyny on this subject disgraceful.

I haven't got the motivation to argue with flat earthers/MRAs/posters who have had stuff deleted previously so will hide this thread.

This kind of thread supports one thing that women have been saying for a long time - that accurate, sex disaggregated data needs to be kept on all offences.

OP seems to be saying that when men report assault its always women that are the perpetrators. Thats like saying when a defendant is acquitted it always means the complainant is a liar.

No that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that there is more male victimization that gets reported or discussed and there is more female perpetrators than gets reported or discussed. Both men and women can victimize boys / men and women can victimize both boys / girls and men / women.

@Thelnebriati
This kind of thread supports one thing that women have been saying for a long time - that accurate, sex disaggregated data needs to be kept on all offences. It has been for quite some time.

OP seems to be saying that when men report assault its always women that are the perpetrators. Thats like saying when a defendant is acquitted it always means the complainant is a liar. OP doesn’t seem to be saying that. She’s clearly said that not all assaults on men are by other men.

''About 1 in 9 men and 1 in 3 women report being sexually victimized at some point''

This gives no information about who is the perpetrator.

Well since it is impossible in England to convict a woman of rape, of course the statistics on crime with show no women rapists. Just like they used to show no husband rapists, and no rapists or men/boys.

If the definition of rape were updated to be forced penetration or forced to penetrate, and the requirement of a flesh and blood penis erased only then would we be able to do any comparison of rape convictions between the sexes.

Its not impossible to convict a woman of rape, women can be convicted on joint enterprise, or if they are transgender.

It is often said that about 1% of raped lead to a condition. If we are taking the criminal conviction statistics as gospel, the consequence is that 99% of women who claim to have been raped are lying. This is patently not true. My argument is that society is so biased in its views on the subject that substantially less than 1% of female rapists ever face consequences.

If you read the Reddit threads earlier in the conversation, you would have seen examples of men being raped, physically assaulted and then when the police turn up, they are charged or cautioned. The criminal justice system just not work for female violence against men.

Male perpetrators often report their victims to the police accusing them of assault; this skews the statistics massively. Sometimes a male perp will have a genuine injury inflicted by the victim defending herself, which lends verisimilitude to an otherwise unconvincing narrative.

It's rather difficult for a woman to rape a man . She could assist a rape but without a penis she can't rape ?

When people go on about how rape by women isn't being taken seriously by police - well I guess that's why / call it what it is - sexual assault - if you want to be taken seriously

Otherwise it sounds like making stuff up for a bun fight

What is your source for males often falsely reporting their victims as perpetrators and this skewing statistics massively?

@Boomboxinmyattic , in the context of this conversation, that's quite extreme victim blaming.

@kelsaycobbles , in many other countries, including some of the states of America, the definition of rape does include a woman having non consensual sex with a man. It is a failing of our legal system that it doesn't apply in this country.

I work in this field and see it daily.

Rape is used for men in some parts of the world, not others. And yes, the official term should be sexual assault in the UK but I think you can understand the discussion regardless of semantics.

What can men do to help other men? Here are some ideas;

Encourage men to report and explain how to report. Discuss reporting openly online, normalise it (you could also normalise going to the doctor when you feel ill, and seeking help form mental health problems.)
Support men's rape crisis services.
Don't tolerate abusive men in your friendship or online groups, they aren't helping your case.
Stop comparing women's experience with men's. It isn't a competition to see who's got it worse and we don't have the same experience. Women spent decades campaigning to be taken seriously, you will probably have to go through the same process.
We aren't your adversaries so stop treating us as if we are.

@Boomboxinmyattic , given that pretty much every set of statistics and studies show 2/3 of women are the victims of domestic abuse, and 1/3 are men, how do you manage to with out who is lying and who is telling the truth?

Link your research please. Thanks.

The 1/3 men is skewed however as DV exists / common in gay relationships

It has been for quite some time.

Well, it’s not because police often record rape by a man identify as a woman as rape committed by a female.

It’s not confirmation bias because people are actually sharing the statistics with you on rape and that men are the perpetrators. What are your statistics?

I'm trying to find something to substantiate your statement. At the moment as I can find is a Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study, reporting on domestic violence in the U.S., 26% of gay men and 37.3% of bisexual men said that they experienced physical violence, staking or rape by their partners.

For heterosexual men it was 29% and for lesbians it was 43.8%.

This suggests that it works be skewed down by gay relationships, not up. Do you have anything to back up your statement?

As has already been said; the statistics are not sex disaggregated. Stop demanding data that does not exist.

Stop using tactics that mirror those of abusers, and try dialogue instead. Make you case and then say what do you want done about it.

How can society help male victims of violence? What can men do to help each other? What do you want from women?

Sexual assault isn't just about rape though - under that definition groping, kissing, oral sex etc wouldn't count.