Titanic 1997. Aibu to not realise how young Ruth was and that I don’t think Cal was that bad?

[phatt]

So it’s been a few years since I watched Titanic and always assumed that Ruth was in her 60s but she’s actually late 30s/early 40s. So she could have also got re-married (less likely but still a possibility.)

I know I’ll get flamed for this but I don’t think Cal was an outright villain. He did attempt to connect with Rose and love her but for his fiancé to be socialising with people in third class (when social standing was huge) and to blatantly cheat on him very openly then you can see why he’d be pissed off.

Also I’m judging him by Edwardian standards and not modern day. Obviously he did acts that made him a “bad” person as well.

*DrSbaitso
*
Er yes, absolutely.

They weren't sleeping together. She had separate quarters. Cal hoped to wear her down (hence his hope that she would come to him) and the "in practice not law" thing meant he didn't want to have to wait for it to be rubberstamped before claiming her, as he saw it. That's also why he gave her the jewel and said she would have everything if she didn't deny him.

He could have lived with waiting until the wedding, if she was holding out to be virtuous and pure until she was married... that would be frustrating but fine, it's proper and expected and not personal. Also suggests she has no desires of her own. But to find she did do it, with the peasant Jack? That's explosive.

Its an extremely sad evening in RR and not one I’d include in a joke personally.

The door theory is meh. JC commissioned testing and concluded that Jack could potentially have fitted but there were different variables impacting this conclusion. But ultimately the character of Jack would not have climbed on in case that jeopardised Roses safety.

I was listening to a podcast about the lifeboats and rescue ships.

There was a huge amount of Atlantic shipping at that time; so much so they had easy and west lanes a bit like train tracks. Therefore ships would expect another vessel to be close by.

As PP said the lifeboats were therefore intended to get people to those ships. Apparently too many lifeboats affected how the ship sailed. Something to do with weight and ballast! The “authorities” therefore wanted to ship makers to concentrate on making the ships safer rather than lifeboats.

The fact it was a clear night and some science stuff I didn’t really understand meant there was super refraction which made Titanic appear further away and distorted lamp signals. California for a long while thought it couldn’t be Titanic. Interestingly the same effect also have caused issues for Scott of the Antarctic!

Don’t blame her, there’s no money in it.

It’s debated though. There’s a scene where he’s say “At night when I crawl between the sheets, I’ll still be the first,”. That’s not definitive but I feel it leans more towards having had sex.

JC commissioned testing and concluded that Jack could potentially have fitted but there were different variables impacting this conclusion.

Who's JC?

James Cameron.

👍

I’ve been thinking about this - engagement, scandal, breach of promise etc - and I’ve come up with an answer I’m happy with- because I do agree the rest of the plot makes much more sense if Rose and Cal are not sleeping together.

When Cal says ‘my wife in practice’, I think he means ‘by custom, we treat engaged couples as already married (including tolerance for post-engagement sex) so you should really understand this is a done deal as far as everyone is concerned.’ Also gives him another chance to make a dig, not only you are expected to honour me, but you’re actually expected to sleep with me.

I’m happy with that, but I still query the script writing because by the standards of the mid-90s it’s asking quite a lot of the audience to follow all of that nuance.

I think "my wife in practice" means "We may not have done the legalities but I own you just as if we had and therefore, not being married isn't a reason not to submit to me." Then he adds "you will honour me the way a wife is required to", implying she hasn't yet, but he's no longer giving her a choice about it. It's a rape threat. He's probably thinking coercion and intimidation rather than pure force but it's the same thing.

I am!! the absolute life and soul. always first to start the dancing and usually bring more than one bottle

Home made mayo I hope 😉

Yeah this was all pretty creepy

Also, I think Rose and Jack would have gone the distance had they both survived. They would have saved each others' lives, each at risk of their own, on a sinking ship, and that after all the previous drama too. That's a hell of a bond. She wasn't impressed by material wealth any more at that point and Jack would have provided as best he could once she was a committed part of his life. They wouldn't have been rich but they'd have got by.

Ruth wasn’t marriageable - past child bearing, not a rich widow, fading looks.
And as for being a seamstress, she was past that too. Her eyesight wouldn’t be up to it in her 40s. She was in a truly shit position.

In the context of the times Rose WBVU not to suck it up and marry Cal, or someone suitable. At the very, very least, she should have managed a bit more discretion.

Time for time it’s the equivalent of refusing to get a job or work more hours to support a family. Yes, the options available to women were thoroughly shit, but it wasn’t as if she was fighting to overturn the patriarchy.

Cal was a catch, tbf.

I'm impressed that people remember it so well. I saw it twice and the bits that really stuck in my mind was when it was sinking and how terrible that was rather than all the Jack and Rose stuff. I do love the Owlkitty version:

There's a bit where Cal says (after Rose has made a reference to Freud) 'I can see I'm going to have to keep an eye on her reading material' (or words to that effect).

So that would be a big, fat, nope.

Although if it was just a shag rather than marriage I'd take Cal over Jack.

My husband tells me he'll be with his first wife in heaven and that's just the rules, because of his particular denominational beliefs!

I'm not sure he'd be any good at it. He didn't seem to think a woman could want anything other than money and status and he certainly didn't care about whether Rose would enjoy it.

I'm impressed that people remember it so well. I saw it twice

By twice you mean, at least twice a day for 3 years? No? Just me?

Also, Cal orders for Rose without consultation 'lamb, with very little mint sauce'. I like tons of mint sauce with lamb, so that's a non-starter as well

Nope Cal is hot and yes he was a product of his time but when I was 19 it was Jack I liked

The stuff about the light and the distance is only really relevant in terms of the distance between the ships. It doesn't alter the fact the crew of the Californian saw a ship firing eight white rockets - the same as the Titanic - and the captain refused to investigate. He was castigated for it in both the American and British inquiries and it ruined his career.