Titanic 1997. Aibu to not realise how young Ruth was and that I don’t think Cal was that bad?

[phatt]

So it’s been a few years since I watched Titanic and always assumed that Ruth was in her 60s but she’s actually late 30s/early 40s. So she could have also got re-married (less likely but still a possibility.)

I know I’ll get flamed for this but I don’t think Cal was an outright villain. He did attempt to connect with Rose and love her but for his fiancé to be socialising with people in third class (when social standing was huge) and to blatantly cheat on him very openly then you can see why he’d be pissed off.

Also I’m judging him by Edwardian standards and not modern day. Obviously he did acts that made him a “bad” person as well.

Really? How do you know?

😆

As regards the euphemism of 'seamstress' for prostitute, many genuine dressmakers worked for large fashion houses in English cities in the 19th century. They would sew gowns for the wealthy women who came to town for the social season, often sleeping at the worktables and labouring all night, but when this was over, they would have no work until the next season. To avoid starvation, some (by no means all!) were forced to sell themselves. Just one way of how the terms came to be associated. It was a hard world for a poor woman.

I've always had a soft spot for Billy Zane, but Cal was just a nasty piece of work.

I thought Ruth was old when I saw it as a teenager too. Rewatched it recently and realised she was just styled to look severe.

Cal was a bit overblown as a baddie. But he never loved Rose, he just wanted to own her. A beautiful, high born, docile, subservient trophy wife. When she cheats on him, he isn't heartbroken...to him it feels more like theft. She's a possession to him, another asset.

And of course he was hot, he's Billy Zane! But villainous hot.

Was it Kathy Bates who played Molly Brown? She was brilliant.

Nah. No offence to Billy Zane but I want Andrews. Too bad Victor Garber's not into women! 😭

I still see the 'I want to be the first and only' comment from Cal as an indication that Rose's proximity on the Titanic voyage is the ideal opportunity to wear her down. For me, some form of urgency is missing from the plot if they're already sleeping together.

The beauty of it is, no one's right or wrong.

What IS wrong is the chronology of the Freud reference, on which I'm taking the liberty of unleashing my inner geek. Freud didn't publish his theory of the Electra Complex, in which he talks about penis envy, until 1913. Even the theory that informed it -the 'Little Hans' the case study that informs his theory of the Oedipal complex - was only available in the original German at that point.

In the film Cal, Andrews, Ruth and Molly Brown instantly recognize the allusion, whilst the seemingly ignorant Ismay is all at sea.

Pity they didn't pay more attention to his 1905 iceberg theory! I'll get me coat ...

The poster discussing the lifeboat situation was correct. The lifeboats were only meant to ferry between ships with the Titanic designed to stay floating against (almost) any damage. Life boats back then were incredibly ricketty and dangerous as was the system for launching them. There had been issues in the recent past where the women and children who had left the ship all capsized and drowned while the remaining men were rescued. This led to understandable hesitation in boarding them from passengers who thought the ship unsinkable. Many lifeboats left well below capacity and the final two hadn't even had time to be launched when she sank. More lifeboats would have been unlikely to save more lives since time pressure and passengers (understandable) reluctance meant those they had weren't fully used.

Also important to note that

1. Third class passengers were at no point deliberately locked in. They were also directed to the lifeboat deck but a lack of familiarity with that section of the ship and poor evacuation planning meant many got lost or could not actually access it
2. No one was shot trying to escape, only warning shots for crowd control were fired that night.
3. The California didn't intentionally ignore Titanic's distress, her radio operator was in bed, the morse light signals were distorted by the coldwater mirage (also why the bergs weren't visible at normal range) and Titanic sent up it's rockets in a company signal rather than distress pattern. Could they have made more of an effort to clarify the situation? Definitely, but they didn't maliciously ignore a sinking ship.

No of course they deliberately wouldn’t have ignored it, sorry if it came across that way! Whatever happened there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, they did not respond to the call. I think it was only later in the inquiry when they said they realised too late that or was probably the Titanic that was signalling.

Nobody in their worst disaster predictions thought she’d go down so fast though, so even in a worst case scenario there’s thought they’d have hours and hours to evacuate.

I don’t think you can say for certainty whether it ignored it or not. A company covering up a notorious scandal isn’t exactly unheard of.

I bet you're fun at parties.

Usually when people contrast ‘law’ with ‘practice’ they are taking about the difference between what the written rules say we should do and what we actually day to day.

So that does support the idea that they had already preemptively consummated the marriage, which was not always uncommon.

What to do with all the tension and talk of denial which supports the opposite? I’m not sure. I think that reading probably makes for a better story overall. So maybe we put the ‘practice’ comment down to bad scriptwriting?!

Was Cal the one who grabbed a random child and pretended to be her father so he could get into a lifeboat?

Villain! Out and our VILLAIN!!!

@Lifeomars · Today 15:12

It's a story, it's fiction, a thing that is not true and is created for entertainment.

Errrmmm, it's KIND of a true story, ya know, the Titanic sinking.

But how come none of this was in the French and Saunders version?

Theirs was a more intellectual interpretation, pitched to a more discerning audience.

It's been a long, long time since I've seen the movie. Who actually survived and did Revolutionary Road?

I am so confused.

Yes. He also said that the "better half" of the passengers wouldn't die, tried to shoot Rose and Jack, framed Jack for theft and arranged for him to be left handcuffed to a post on the sinking ship and overturned the breakfast table while screaming at Rose and threatening her with rape.

Cal definitely didn't love her. He was only upset about her cheating on him because it hurt his ego and he was affronted that she would cheat with a peasant like Jack

The deleted scenes show Cal hadn’t slept with Rose yet but wanted to take her virginity.

It's been a long, long time since I've seen the movie. Who actually survived and did Revolutionary Road?

I am so confused.

They both did.

Spoiler alert
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Rose came to a bad end in RR. Serves her right for not shifting her arse up that plank of wood.

Cal was an asshole. Abusive manchild not in control of his emotions.

Rose was awful too though. 1) She cheats on her fiancé and regardless of how Cal behaved she still cheated 2) she dumped the diamond in the ocean when it’s clear that her family could’ve benefited from it (and given the research scientists know that Cal bought the diamond for Rose and it was given to her it was legally hers. Nobody else would have a claim to it, least of all them) and 3) she spends like one day with some random dude (albeit a hot one) and then talks about him as if the life she went on to lead (with her husband!) meant nothing.

I’m saying it doesn’t necessarily confirm they they were having sex.

I know the point of the scene is authenticity, but I just want to know how they got that child to cry with such realism and vigour.
Anyone know how? Seriously.

They were probably really genuinely cold and frightened, by all accounts all the big action scenes were very intense and went on for ages, I think I read that some extras had to be treated for hypothermia.