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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think sometimes gentle parenting is taken too far?

238 replies

GPgonewrong · 17/06/2023 15:34

This week I’ve spent a few days with friends, their baby and son who’s almost 4. I have DS who is a few years older.

They gentle parent (which I also do, to an extent) but it means their toddler never hears raised voices, I didn’t ever hear “no”, everything was dealt with through a compromise or sitting down with him. All sounds fine, until you experience the behaviour. He bounced on every single chair and sofa, constantly pulled out furniture, wouldn’t sit down for a meal, eating little bits and buggering off running round, never ate a full meal but fed on demand. He shoved me out of the way several times, complained every time he was explained to why he shouldn’t be doing that, which he shouted back “NO! You can’t say that”. Completely unable to share, always snatching off the other kids, and didn’t say goodbye when we left. He is almost four but still won’t play nicely, instead his idea of play was destructive, throwing things around and knocking things over.

AIBU to think it’s gentle parenting taken too far and no discipline? Or maybe a separate issue?

OP posts:
Achwheesht · 17/06/2023 17:42

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

contrary13 · 17/06/2023 17:46

SleepydogLies · 17/06/2023 16:48

You want to try teaching these kids.

If we don't have enough challenges as teachers, this whole new 'gentle parenting' craze has taken hold and behaviour in schools is the worst it's EVER been.

'No' is a fact of life. 'No' builds resilience.

Teach your kids NO, please. Before there's no one left to teach them!

^^ This!

When my 18 year old was 6, he had a playdate with one of his friends from school. Now, the boys have known one another since they were 2 and at nursery together, so I knew that the friend could be a little... wild, shall we say? A little naughty, a bit cheeky, but generally a really sweet little boy. I knew the parents, actually liked the parents, but we were friendly because our sons were friends. So, I collect the two boys from school, we walk home and they're both telling me about their days, who had crisps in their lunchbox that day, who got to push the lunch trolley from the classroom to the canteen, who'd played what games with them during break... typical 6 year old chattering. We get in - and this was the first time this boy had been to our home - and I set them up at the table with the after school snacks that my son and his sister always had pre-supper: crackers, some cheese, sliced apple pieces and a beaker of milk or water, and the TV on in the background as a treat. My oldest is 8 years older, so I thought I had playdates under control...

Oh, how mistaken I was! The friend insisted that they bounce on the sofa, whilst eating their snacks. I was in the kitchen trying to deal with my then senior school age child's latest problem and pondering what to feed them with for supper, because I'd been given a long list of things that the friend would/wouldn't eat. The giggling alerted me to sticking my head round the door to check on the boys - as they were bouncing on the sofa.

HUGE "no-no" as far as my house rules were concerned. The sofa was brand spanking new, we had a trampoline outside that they were told they could go on when they were finished with their snacks, and they still had shoes on. My son clocked the dog slinking into his crate, turned his head and saw me silently eying the scene before me... and he stops mid-bounce. Off the sofa like a little rocket. The friend keeps bouncing. So I go over, and I'm trying to be kind thinking that he doesn't live here, how could he know the house rules, he's too little to understand that bouncing with food in your mouth's a massive choking hazard, not my son, be kind 13, be kind...! I explain to him that in our house, we don't jump on the sofa, not even with our shoes off, not even because it looks bouncy... if he's done with his snack, they can go outside and bounce on the trampoline... and i go to lift him off the sofa. For him to spit the chewed up cheese in his mouth into my face and tell me to fuck off...

Well, it's a good job his shoes were on, I can tell you, because he was being marched to his house after that, playdate cut short, me mentally banning him from darkening my doorstep ever again and how to convince my own son (who really liked this boy) from being friends with him... His mother answered the door, all surprised - yet I suspect not - to see us on the doorstep. So I told her why her son was being returned within 30 minutes of school kicking out for the day... to have her go ":tinkly laugh, oh, we don't ever tell (friend) that he's not allowed to do or say things - it damages his self-esteem and it's really unkind to him!"

The boy never set foot in my house again, although they tried to instigate more playdates - "oh, I have to take (older child) to the dentist, and I've no one to look after (friend)..." got a resounding "not my problem!" response (but then, they're a 2 parent household, and mine is a 1 parent household, so if one of my tribe had an appointment somewhere, we all trogged along to the waiting rooms!). Didn't stop my son from being friends with him, but I certainly didn't encourage it either, and... eventually the problem resolved itself, because in Yr 8, friend was expelled from their senior school because his mother had allowed him to take her craft knife into school one day!!! Of course, it wasn't their fault - it was the school's fault for being so strict for a one time offence (although I have my suspicions that there were a lot of minor infractions building up to this major one), or it was the fault of the other boys in the friendship group for making him feel so insecure and vulnerable...! The boy ended up in our local school for kids that are excluded for all sorts of reasons for a few months as his parents desperately tried to find another school to take him. The only one that was willing to give it a go was the one his parents had sneered at for being "too working class for (them)!".

I'm still sort-of-friendly with his mother, who still can't see that her inability to tell her child "no" and to teach him to have basic respect for other people, their belongings, their right not to have a craft knife brandished about them was precisely what caused her son to end up a lonely, virtually friendless (the school he was seemingly too good for - which is a decent school, actually; I have friends who went there, and a godson who was there when this boy was, and they've all turned out decent members of society - is 10 miles away, so he couldn't have friends home, and he never seemed to go to friends houses after school), unhappy individual. He sits in the front room his parents "gave" to their sons (so that they didn't have to spend time with them, I suspect) and online games all day, every day. My son gets the odd text from him, and has gamed with him in the past, but... even he says the lad's too entitled for his taste. And it's actually really sad, because he was a nice little boy - until his permissive/gentle/absentee parents ruined him by not giving him the basics of how to behave in the wider community/society. They allowed him to truly think that he's never to blame, never at fault, for anything... it's always someone else's fault. Sad

BertieBotts · 17/06/2023 17:46

I do think sometimes people who start off with an attachment parenting type style for babies can struggle to transition from this very baby-led style to adults directing and making what can feel a bit like "arbitrary" boundaries. I know that I probably did and I recognise it in others sometimes.

Like for example if you've always just breastfed a baby on demand then you can get into a pattern where you're still offering little bits of food constantly rather than having clear boundaries around mealtimes which is basically for the parents' convenience. I think sometimes it can be a bit unclear that it's "OK" to establish things which are primarily for parental convenience, until you get to the point where you're totally overwhelmed and disregulated yourself as the adult, and then it's a problem, because being regulated enough yourself to be able to co-regulate the child is essential. In reality, it's important to protect your own sanity and part of this is putting into place rules which are designed to make your life easier. I think a lot of people do this naturally without necessarily having to think about it, and if you do this and also have a child who is fairly easily regulated anyway, then the combination works together. But if you're not particularly on top of this/don't notice until it's too late AND have a child who needs a bit more help with co-regulation, then that can be a difficult combination.

ApplesInTheSunshine · 17/06/2023 17:48

2bazookas · 17/06/2023 17:16

I would never say “no”. You cannot teach when a child is disregulated, they simply do not have the ability to learn then as that part of the brain is shut off

Do please explain what neurological or physical process shuts off part of the brain when it hears the word No.

That’s not what I said. I said when they are emotionally disregulated you cannot teach anything because that part of the brain is shut off.

Nothing to do with the word “no” Confused

catmothertes1 · 17/06/2023 17:59

WimpoleHat · 17/06/2023 15:39

He’s going to find school an interesting experience……

I used to teach kids like this,in a secondary school! It was not fun.

VivaVivaa · 17/06/2023 18:00

I agree that you have to adapt the parenting style to the child. I think I’m relatively ‘gentle’ in my overall approach, but 3 yo DS is a very high energy child who doesn’t naturally want to please or obey instructions. If you have one of these placid types maybe gentle redirection always works. DS hears the word ‘no’ a lot, often for his own safety or the safety or comfort of others, which I won’t compromise on.

johnd2 · 17/06/2023 18:00

Some great posts on this thread already, thanks to those posters who have taken the time to explain the what and the why calmly.
I think one of the key things for me is that the consequences should be something that I could see him doing of his own initiative in the same situation.

So he feels overwhelmed, ok find somewhere quiet.
He hits someone, ok take a deep breath and say sorry are you ok and repairs things
He spills something, ok get a cloth and clean it up
Etc etc.
I don't want his inner voice shouting no/what did you do that for/you're so clumsy/etc at him when he makes a mistake as that's not constructive.

Also it helps me to think about whether things really matter.

Boundaries are very important to model on behalf of your child. My son hates people swooping in to wipe his nose, to pick him up without warning, to be accosted for a hug by relatives, refuses to say sorry when he's not feeling that way. But I consider that is his boundaries and his authentic self. And parenting in this way has made me respect him more. And in turn he respects me more.

Thesearmsofmine · 17/06/2023 18:22

They are permissive not gentle. It seems that people have jumped onto the ‘gentle’ bandwagon without really understanding what it means. Many seem to think the child should never be upset, hear the word no or have boundaries set which means the kids do whatever they like without recourse.

I fit the gentle parent stereotype but don’t like to be associated with it really because of these type of parents who claim to be gentle when they are just a bit lazy.

MrsCarson · 17/06/2023 18:25

That's not gentle parenting, that's not parenting at all.

KarmaStar · 17/06/2023 18:33

Yanbu.gentle parenting is no boundaries parenting so the children have no idea what they are supposed to do.
They should get off their backsides and give them a solid upbringing with guidance and consequences.
And teach them some manners.

MumUndone · 17/06/2023 18:35

You know what, a couple of years ago I would have agreed with you but we are basically forced to gentle parent my DS4 as he is demand avoidant (no diagnosis as yet but obvious to us and to staff at preschool that there is some neurodiversity there) and telling him off or not to do something simply doesn't work; we have to persuade, cajole, bribe, appeal to his better nature, or else risking a complete meltdown. Other people probably think we're complete pushovers and that DS4 is a complete spoilt brat. But they don't experience the meltdowns we do.

Hollyppp · 17/06/2023 18:45

flightless55 · 17/06/2023 15:46

That's not gentle parenting that's passive parenting ... ie. Not parenting!

This!

You absolutely have boundaries in gentle parenting and it’s not a rule you can never say no?!

Lifescary · 17/06/2023 18:46

MumUndone · 17/06/2023 18:35

You know what, a couple of years ago I would have agreed with you but we are basically forced to gentle parent my DS4 as he is demand avoidant (no diagnosis as yet but obvious to us and to staff at preschool that there is some neurodiversity there) and telling him off or not to do something simply doesn't work; we have to persuade, cajole, bribe, appeal to his better nature, or else risking a complete meltdown. Other people probably think we're complete pushovers and that DS4 is a complete spoilt brat. But they don't experience the meltdowns we do.

Thank you. You have reminded me of the important need to keep an open mind. Good luck with DS4.

Pooterlie · 17/06/2023 19:03

Hi @literalviolence I live on a housing development and all the kids play together. I see a lot of parenting at close range.

What I see is authoritarian parents - so - lots of demands for compliance and punishments meted out for things like not listening, being rude, not obeying instructions. I've seen shouting, counting down from 3, very firm instructions etc etc.

These are loving parents so I'm not in any way criticising but it's not gentle parenting.

literalviolence · 17/06/2023 19:07

Pooterlie · 17/06/2023 19:03

Hi @literalviolence I live on a housing development and all the kids play together. I see a lot of parenting at close range.

What I see is authoritarian parents - so - lots of demands for compliance and punishments meted out for things like not listening, being rude, not obeying instructions. I've seen shouting, counting down from 3, very firm instructions etc etc.

These are loving parents so I'm not in any way criticising but it's not gentle parenting.

Sure. But if you're not formally gentle parenting, that doesn't mean you're authoritative parenting. I think I'm rallying against all the new names and the idea that parents have to put themselves in a parenting style box.

tothelefttotheleft · 17/06/2023 19:08

@Pooterlie

As an adult I often don't know why I'm stressed and cross so not sure if a child can articulate their feelings.

On the other hand maybe if I'd been patented like this I would be better at working out what was going on in my head.

Isolationendurance · 17/06/2023 19:11

Permissive parenting is not a particularly gentle experience for anyone.

Rainsdropskeepfalling · 17/06/2023 19:18

Different approaches for different kids I guess. I happily admit though that when the child runs out in front of a car, the discussion about "whether running out was a sensible things to do and maybe they should have waited for the rest of us to catch up as we had asked.." seems like it's missing the boat. Maybe the first time it works but when the kid is 9 I think they've had this chat before. But I recognise I'm old fashioned this way.

I do feel for the teachers. Possibly the teachers in the private school where said child will be going because they are too head strong to go to a state school.

ApplesInTheSunshine · 17/06/2023 19:23

KarmaStar · 17/06/2023 18:33

Yanbu.gentle parenting is no boundaries parenting so the children have no idea what they are supposed to do.
They should get off their backsides and give them a solid upbringing with guidance and consequences.
And teach them some manners.

You have absolutely no idea what gentle (authoritative) parenting is. I wouldn’t be so proud of your ignorance if I were you.

ApplesInTheSunshine · 17/06/2023 19:25

literalviolence · 17/06/2023 19:07

Sure. But if you're not formally gentle parenting, that doesn't mean you're authoritative parenting. I think I'm rallying against all the new names and the idea that parents have to put themselves in a parenting style box.

Gentle parenting is authoritative parenting.

You’re confusing authoritative and authoritarian. They’re two very different parenting styles.

SongThrushFeather · 17/06/2023 19:26

It’s not just the child who will find school difficult unfortunately. It’s also the teacher, teaching assistant and the other children in the class with him (I am a TA).
It seems to be very common parenting style now though. So many children coming to school saying they can do what they want, other their children must play their game and only they can set the rules. It honestly seems don’t teach their children any compassion or consideration for others. Any unkindness to others is viewed by the parents as their child just being a strong powerful character whereas in reality their child is unkind and self centred.

Pooterlie · 17/06/2023 19:28

@literalviolence I came on the thread because for me parenting gently has been brilliant. But I agree it doesn't need a label.

@tothelefttotheleft yes thats the idea. Phillipa Perry who is a psychotherapist says that in the main people end up in therapy because as children they were firmly told that their negative feelings were wrong. Or even shamed or punished for being angry / upset. As adults without that ability to validate their feelings they often feel depressed and stressed. So the idea is if you affirm your child and don't shame them for being angry, whining, or their inconvenient behaviour they do learn to understand how they feel, label what is happening and why and learn to self regulate.

I guess we will find out if this approach works in about 30 years Grin

TizerorFizz · 17/06/2023 19:37

So if all these wonderfully detailed parenting styles that work so well, why are schools reporting more and more Dc unable to start school ready for school? Something is wrong. My DDs were ready for school. They never had snatched things. Didn’t have melt downs at 4. Could listen and follow instructions. Could make friends and play happily. I never gave any of this stuff a moment’s thought! Maybe others did but from what I could see, hardly any DC were poorly parented. Most parents just got on with parenting and it was common sense.

Abouttimemum · 17/06/2023 19:44

I would probably say we gentle parent to an extent (I don’t feel the need to shout tbh and only say no to important things otherwise it becomes background noise) but our 4 year old behaves nothing like you describe! It doesn’t mean he doesn’t get disciplined so I think in your friend’s son’s case it’s probably a lack of boundaries and consequences rather than being shouty etc.

YoucancallmeKAREN · 17/06/2023 19:44

What is so wrong with telling a child no? What do you do if they are about to touch the hot oven door, just let them burn their hands ? These children turn into the spoiled bullies that nobody wants their children near.

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