Nottingham Incident: Relatives should be given privacy, not be expected to attend public events

[tttigress]

Obviously it is hard to imagine what relatives of those killed in Nottingham this week are going through.

But surely the best thing to do is give them privacy, not arrange public events and expect them to attend and even speak?

I guess some might say it's their choice to attend. But if you organise an event and give them the option to attend, they might agree while not being in a fit mental state to make a decision. So therefore best not to have an event.

This. You are saying that the families must have been coerced or pressured in grieving in the way that they are - presumably because you think their decision to speak is a poor one.

No. Just no. You do not have the right to judge and police others responses.

As you can see, your - at best - thoughtless thread is now attracting others who say ‘well if that was me I wouldn’t be doing that/couldn’t imagine doing that’. Well it’s not you. Leave them alone.

Oh ffs OP, you sound like one of those people who thinks they know other people's minds better than they know themselves. Wind your neck in, let them grieve the way they need to. They may well be feeling a lot of support from having people around them.

You'll be asking next if it's a government policy to have this wave of events offering peace and calm from relatives of the recently bereaved.

This public display of grief putting flowers out started as far as I can remember with the death of Diana. The florists like it I assume.
At the queen's mourning they were removing the wrappings which meant it would be easier to clean up the dead flowers.

I think OP is getting a hard time here. I read it as concern for the families suddenly being in the media after this terrible incident

I am not commenting on the Nottingham incident nor criticising anyone involved. I wish everyone the best in this desperately sad time.

I am commenting on what I think is an increasing trend for some, perhaps many, people to exaggerate the grief they feel on the death of someone they barely knew. Sometimes these distant friends organise public events which will be good for them without considering whether it it helpful for the family.

But it is difficult because even in the same family people grieve so differently.

A couple I knew tragically lost a 12 year old daughter. Her death attracted national press interest. The father's grief was helped by the subsequent publicity, the events and the many memorials. The mother's was not helped at all.

Their daughter's secondary school named a recently built library after the girl. The father attended a ceremony at the school, the mother didn't, but no one had thought of her younger sister who went to the same school and hated the fact the library was named after her much loved and desperately missed sister. It didn't help that young child at all.

To be clear I am not saying they were visibly coerced.

What I am saying is it is very possible they were asked to attend and they very clearly agreed and were very positive in their agreement.

However even in their very clear agreement, they may not have made a decision in their long term best interests, the reason they may have been temporarily mentally impaired in their decision making, was because there kid died the day before.

The University/ Council/ Police thus failed in their duty by asking them to make difficult decisions while they were vunerable.

I am critisising the University/Council that organise these events and ask the families to turn up while in a vunerable state. I am also critisising the media, I really would not like to be filmed soon after a child of mine died.

It was an invitation, not a Royal Summons. The families were free not to attend if they didn't feel up to it and no-one sensible would have thought any the worse of them for it. The gentleman's family did not attend the first vigil at the university and I didn't see the deceased female student's' brother there either. Totally understandable.

Given the amount of publicity surrounding public vigils, everyone knows there will be cameras and press and photographers present. It's not like they choose to attend unawares. And, if when they get there, the family feel it's too much for them, they can always leave immediately. Again, no-one is going to think worse of them for it.

On the other hand, some family members mind find it comforting to have a space for public, communal mourning and acknowledgement in the immediate aftermath. So to deprive them of that choice because you, as a total stranger, reckon you know what's best for them, is not appropriate, imo.

You’re not. And you should know that.

I’m in the sad situation of knowing one of the teenagers and I can wholeheartedly say that they are 100% comfortable with their decisions and choices.

it is absolutely FUCKING nothing to do with you what they do or don’t do while grieving.

Can we just agree these a families are in a vunerable state?

So why the fuck do you think you’re helping by this.

People like you make me sick with your faux concern while judging hard.

As a parent of a student at Nottingham I suspect they just want to be where their DC lived and were making a life for themselves. It must make them feel close to them.
My DM was killed tragically and the support of virtual strangers who were part of her life gave great comfort.
They will still be deep in shock. I certainly couldn't have stood in public and spoken, but I can see how others would and would find it helpful to talk so intimately about those they have lost.

My point is if you are in a vunerable state you should not be expected to do much / make any decisions that affect you (your mental health) long term.

Can you just please stop? Are you enjoying this or something? I find your comments quite upsetting.

Of course they were invited to attent O_o How odd would it be to hold a memorial and not invite the families. Apparently the Dads decided they wanted to speak, they were not asked by the organisers.

It sounds like they found the support for their children incredibly moving and got to connect with others who cared for them.

Why are you trying to turn a negative spin on an already awful series of events? You sound like an absolute doom merchant.

They made the decision that felt best for them at the time. That’s all anyone can do especially at times of grief.

trying to pick apart intention doesn’t help anyone it just leads to unnecessary judgement.

Everyone's being weirdly harsh on the OP. It feels like one of those threads where the first couple of replies set the tone for everyone else's posts and if the first couple had been in more agreement then there would have been a more mixture of opinions being posted.

I agree with you OP. It's not that the family should not be allowed to do these things but being asked by organisers of the events to appear at a time when they are incredibly vulnerable feels exploitative. Especially when some of the grieving family being filmed for extended periods of time are still children themselves. I don't have any blame or judgement on the family themselves but more on the media / event organisers.

I’m not being ‘weirdly’ harsh. I think they’re a judgemental prick who should think how they would feel if they were being criticised for speaking at a memorial to their murdered child.

And as for the child in question. He wants everyone to hear about his sibling and how amazing they were. Let the people close to him who actually KNOW him make decisions for him.

And yes I know people are saying ‘it’s down the organisers’ but what if the families requested these events so they can have a chance for a tribute to their beloved children.

Should they have been denied that cos some twat on mumsnet thinks they’re doing grieving wrong?

YABU

Years ago a friend and colleague died age 27. His mother spoke eloquently at his funeral as we were all.in bits and subsequently came to work to feel/ see where he had spent his days with us.

People process things differently.

They genuinely might be getting comfort from being there and indees bwing with the other families. It's thier choice

@RedGreenBlueSky I actually think is related to the fact that this is every parents worst nightmare.

Therefore the other contributors (for good reason) don't want to think about it, and just want it to not be visible. Therefore the best course of action is to shout at me, without even reading what I wrote. I guess if you had to think about what I wrote, you would have to put yourself in the position of those parents, which obviously you don't want to do because it is so horrible.

I think YABU and lacking empathy. Attending public events and speaking in public is a natural response to grief and death in many different cultures. Funerals usually take place very quickly in Muslim and Jewish communities for example so the public business of grieving and delivering eulogies takes place in the very early shock period. It's also have noticed this during Black Lies Matters protests - family members speak in public even when the loss is very raw. The response is to raise questions in public and ensure that the victims are not forgotten.

Being with your child's peers and other grieving families so you can talk and digest your emotions may have felt right for the parents. Their children were murdered in a shocking and unexpected way and perhaps the fathers wanted to assure the student community and provide them with leadership and calm the situation down.

Staying at home with your immediate family and keeping your mourning private - this is one way to grieve but not right for everyone. Do you know many parents who have lost children? They will grieve every day of their lives - there will never not be a moment that passes without them thinking about it. They will never be over it, never. The notion that you have to follow the 'steps' and do it in the right order so you will process it properly is a fairly toxic one.

Sadly for my community we are thinking about. We are having to think about it. We have no choice about it being visible.

And I still think you should be shouted at for being a judgemental prick with not empathy for how your thread might come across if the families saw it.

Therefore the other contributors (for good reason) don't want to think about it, and just want it to not be visible. Therefore the best course of action is to shout at me, without even reading what I wrote. I guess if you had to think about what I wrote, you would have to put yourself in the position of those parents, which obviously you don't want to do because it is so horrible.

What a load of patronising rubbish. Hardly surprising though, given the way you've consistently tried to infantilise the families, total strangers to you, and deprive them of any agency.

What an odd comment when it seems your the one who doesn’t want it to be visible!