To think no child benefit/tax credits are unfair on apprenticeships?

[16notanAdult]

Thanks to a post on here I've found out that as my DD is going to do an apprenticeship I will no longer get child benefit or tax credits for her (I'm currently still on TC due to be UC from November ish but she still won't count as a dependent)

She will be earning £5.28 an hour and I will now have to ask her to make up the difference despite the fact she is 16 and on such a small wage. Her wage will need to cover all her transport and work clothes etc.

We have a very tight budget and no ability to get better jobs or more hours due to disability in the household.

It just seems unfair that if she isn't classed as a dependant anymore she isn't entitled to minimum wage.

An apprenticeship isn't comparable to someone else on a proper wage because they have the qualification. It's a way of getting qualified whilst earning a small living. Yes it should arguably be more but she can easily afford her spends.
The problem is op you're reliant on money that has an end date. I also think it's wrong to ask a 16 year old to pay rent. I worked from 15 and always paid for my own hair, phone, driving lessons, fancier shampoo etc. I think that's just general parents teaching their kids if you want nicer things to work for them.

She is getting minimum wage, @16notanAdult .

The Apprentice wage and the NMW for 16 and 17 year olds are exactly the same - £5.28.

My daughter is doing A-Levels and has weekend work, she earns the same rate. Yes, it's extremely low, but it is the legal wage for that age group.

At that level of income (£147 a week) with no expenses except transport and lunch, I would expect her to copntribute to household costs. I did at her age.

I'm not sure it's unfair - or at least, not any more unfair than it would be to not have a difference. And while it's hard for your household, I only think it's shite in general if there has been an expectation set up that it would be just her money and doesn't involve that contribution to the household.

It is my fault for not looking more into this, as naively thought as learning is now compulsory until 18 it would be covered (she could get £10per hour but with no apprenticeship so no hope of further improvement. )

I just hoped that she'd get a chance to get some money behind her, it just takes away her chances.

But this money goes into the household, I will now have to ask her to pay rent, which seems shit at 16.
I might be missing something's but why would you have to ask her to pay rent? Did you use the child.benefit/tax credits for rent? I thought that would be used for her clothes, books,lunch money other personal expenses etc and now you don't need to give her any money for those things as she can pay for them herself.

I'm not the OP, but I use the CB/UC towards the gas, electric, food bill. If I stop getting the CB/UC then the DC will have to pay towards those.

She will be paid the same amount as the majority of apprentices in their first year. Its more than 147 per week, it’s approx 800 per month as the college day is also paid.

No, because currently I'm with you on a low income after a spectacularly shitty divorce and having to change careers because I would have killed myself otherwise. What I have done however, is understood what will happen when my kids reach certain ages and planned appropriately. So in the next 3 years when my eldest hits 18 I'll have completed a part time masters done over many years to make it manageable and got enough experience in my new field to hopefully be able to walk back into a highly paid job, just like I had before things went pear shaped. None of this happened overnight and its taken me 5 years to date to turn things around including giving up lots of time to associated volunteer roles to enhance my CV while I'm in a low paid job. None of this shitshow has been the fault of my children and hopefully they haven't missed out on too much compared to their wealthy friends with two high earning parents. It's my job to set them up for a happy and fulfilling life and my job to keep the whole show on the road until they are settled into being an adult. I fully intend to let them be as carefree as possible until they leave Uni (or whatever) and then it's over to them.

If she pays you the equivalent of her CB and pays for all her own stuff like clothes, phone, haircuts, travel and spending money, how much are you actually losing out on by not getting the CTC?

At 15 (summer born) back in the late 80's I got a YTS and from that paid my parents the equivalent of CB which was about a quarter of my income at the time. I paid for all my own stuff and they continued to put a roof over my head (which they would have been paying anyway and for some of my food. I thought that was fair and would do the same with DS if he chose to get an apprenticeship.

Honestly why does it come as a shock to so many that the money stops when they turn 16/18. If only the cash cow moves straight out at that age too huh. What a burden.

This may blow your mind but many people don't have separate little pots of money to pay for separate things so.My child benefit ,child tax credits all.go on one big pot and all goes towards paying for utilities ,food ,rent ,everything my children need .

Surely the £147 is way more than the child tax credit and child benefit for her so I can't see what the problem is, especially as you say she is continuing with some weekend work as well, although I appreciate that is going to be hard.

Surely the £147 is way more than the child tax credit and child benefit for her so I can't see what the problem is,

The money is paid to the DD, not OP, is the problem

Op maybe you should look at whether you would be better off moving to UC now if you have rent to pay. If you don't currently get housing benefit then you could be significantly better off on Uc and there is no deduction on the Uc rent element until a young adult living with you turns 21 which is helpful to many families with young people still living at home.

@16notanAdult “learning” isn’t actually compulsory until age 18 at all.
The 3rd option (from the government website) says work a minimum of 20 hours a week while in part time education or training.
So a 16 year old could get a full time job (40 hours) and be “training on the job” - not an official government apprenticeship but just whatever staff training the company does. If the company pays more than minimum wage as standard a 16 year old would probably earn less than older employees because that’s standard but could be more than an apprenticeship wage.
Is that an option she could go for? A relative of mine dropped out of college at 17 (November birthday so during the first term). Changed his weekend retail job to full time, learned on the job and at age 22 is part of the management training program.

From government website…

How much does she realistically cost you per week at the minute?

I appreciate your position but I do wonder what the plan was if she had moved straight out at 18. You'd lose your CTC/CB at this point anyway and she wouldn't be living at home to contribute, so there'd be a hole in the budget. Yes you wouldn't have to cover her water/utilities/food as you are still doing now but this can't be a huge amount for a 16 year old girl? Can you bring this plan forward?

This may blow your mind but many people don't have separate little pots of money to pay for separate things so.My child benefit ,child tax credits all.go on one big pot and all goes towards paying for utilities ,food ,rent ,everything my children need .
I understand that but I meant the overall amount the household has is not less than it would be if she stayed at school and OP still.claimed CB.because she would have fewer expenses to pay for DD.
Incidentally I grew up in an extremely poor household. I'm no stranger to not having money

.I

my apprenticeship started at £50 per week for 35 hrs. I was 16 and lived in a council flat alone. I had to pay a tiny amount towards rent while the council paid the rest. 😫😫😫😫

Apprenticeships are tough and generally only work well if they can be financially supported by parents.

So instead of your dd getting a qualification you are whining at losing CB and TC?

Get her to pay you a bit of rent, like £40 a week, she'll be learning the value of money which is really important as well.

My DD had an apprenticeship. She paid us £40 a week rent and paid her dad part too money to take her to and from work. She's now 19 and lives independently

I do think apprenticeships are often very good though. The young people I know who have done them ( including my ds2 ) have all been keep on by the companies they did their apprenticeships with and are earning decent wages by the age of 21/22. It's a couple of hard year op hopefully for more gain in the longer term.

Because basically noone would ever employ someone fresh out of school if the wages were the same that's why there is increments in increasees otherwise someone older with experience would always get the job.

No she's learning by working and earning some money to do so!

Minimum wage for under 18s is £5.28 though. I was brought up that when you earned money you contributed 1/3 to the household which sounds ok? 1/3 to you, 1/3 on transport/ food when out, 1/3 on saving / spending.

That way your income drop will be roughly halved assuming tax credits are roughly same as universal credit.

That seems really harsh to say she can't do the apprenticeship she wants.

I think it's more that as you don't have small children now you shouldn't be claiming so much from the government